Tue May 19 14:53:37 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Anybody know any other good dynamic item systems like Diablo's?
Tue May 19 15:06:28 2009
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Lotus@shadowmudii: rewards are dynamically generated, rather than hard coded
Tue May 19 15:07:07 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: cant think of any reason it would be hard to implement
Tue May 19 15:08:29 2009
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Cozminsky@EotL: I think the easiest systems would be somewhat similar to diablo's items
Tue May 19 15:08:40 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Well, it's somewhat of a come back to the 2.4.5 times, where every room and npc cloned /std/item and set its attributes. You just need to keep these attributes in player savefile when he quits with the item in inventory, nyah?
Tue May 19 15:09:15 2009
[imud_code]
Lotus@shadowmudii: I think I have a good handle on it, it's just a matter of doing it
Tue May 19 15:09:33 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i think what theyre talking about is if you kill monster X, you get a magic potion, or a sword, or a scroll, depending on some algorithm
Tue May 19 15:09:59 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: i though of a randomly-specced items, possibly depending on player's level
Tue May 19 15:10:12 2009
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Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: random drops of premade items are semi-trivial
Tue May 19 15:13:20 2009
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Lotus@shadowmudii: the trick is to base the drops on areas and monster, and still allow premade ones. I think Ideysus came up with a good idea for that for keywords
Tue May 19 15:15:24 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: would the "kind of player" that killed the npc matter in terms of the drop?
Tue May 19 15:15:48 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: like, different drops for different player levels, classes, etc?
Tue May 19 15:18:10 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: well then i think the way to think about this isnt "drops"
Tue May 19 15:18:40 2009
[imud_code]
Lotus@shadowmudii: good point - the mob would wear/wield the equipment
Tue May 19 15:19:47 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: would you bother creating a server to generate the item?
Tue May 19 15:21:05 2009
[imud_code]
Lotus@shadowmudii: I'm just getting back into coding. Player crafted items/vendors is next. :)
Tue May 19 15:21:14 2009
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Cozminsky@EotL: someone here created a system similar to nethack items
Tue May 19 15:21:56 2009
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Cozminsky@EotL: you have a scroll of FEBDAC which you don't know what it is until identified
Tue May 19 15:22:25 2009
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Cozminsky@EotL: but once you identify a scroll of FEBDAC you know what it is
Tue May 19 15:23:02 2009
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Cozminsky@EotL: except you don't know if a specific scroll is blessed or cursed, etc
Tue May 19 15:23:11 2009
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Lotus@shadowmudii: now I see why Ideysus wanted I3. You guys are great for bouncing ideas off of. I'll let you know how it works out.
Tue May 19 16:14:09 2009
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Ideysus@shadowmudii: I live to make Descartes's live difficult.
Tue May 19 16:15:17 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Oh, whatever you are calling yourself now...
Tue May 19 16:15:29 2009
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Detah@Dead Souls Dev: dont blame Descartes. hes not to blame for your woes. blame Crat.
Tue May 19 16:15:57 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: It all adds up. You never see them in the same place?
Tue May 19 16:16:25 2009
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Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i assume you had a friend log in as Descartes
Tue May 19 16:16:37 2009
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Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: to make us all believe you arent the same person!
Tue May 19 16:16:41 2009
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Kejope@Cookie Dough: That would explain why he is so tolerant of Descartes coding style.. hmm.
Tue May 19 16:16:57 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it explains why ideysus was so snippy at me before
Tue May 19 16:17:02 2009
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Ideysus@shadowmudii: I swear, every time I see 'mixed borg' my heart sinks.
Tue May 19 16:17:07 2009
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Lyeith@The New Horizon: -points descartes documentations- -shivers-
Tue May 19 16:17:15 2009
[imud_code]
Detah@Dead Souls Dev: Descartes is not to blame for your woes. Descartes' only guilty of leaving his name in the headers of the files which were corrupted by 20 other creators without his knowledge, who did not leave their name in the header.
Tue May 19 16:17:48 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: most of DS files still carry the header "By Descartes, last modified in 1996"
Tue May 19 16:17:55 2009
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Lyeith@The New Horizon: i have documentations like D--D-D-EE-SS-SS-CC-AA-RR-TTTE-EEE-S-SSS
Tue May 19 16:17:58 2009
[imud_code]
Kejope@Cookie Dough clarifies that he, in reality, has nothing against Descartes code.
Tue May 19 16:18:16 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: heh i fixed that D--D-D-EE-SS-SS-CC-AA-RR-TTTE-EEE-S-SSS thing
Tue May 19 16:19:15 2009
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Lyeith@The New Horizon: "types descartes in mud" --- You think therefore you are.
Tue May 19 16:19:20 2009
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Detah@Dead Souls Dev: that drives me nuts. string dude; string guy; I could just puke.
Tue May 19 16:19:49 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i dont blame people for thinking we're the same person
Tue May 19 16:20:10 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i just wish i'd find the nm backup drive, if i am him
Tue May 19 16:22:55 2009
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Detah@Dead Souls Dev: ah, but Cratylus renounced his power of speech. We cannot be so lucky. *wink*
Tue May 19 16:26:08 2009
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Lotus@shadowmudii: Cratylus can't be Descartes. He hasn't even threatened to sue me yet
Tue May 19 22:07:05 2009
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Adam@BlackDawn-Dev: does MCCP need and mudlib stuff to work or does fluffos take care of it all?
Tue May 19 22:08:12 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: http://dead-souls.net/code/alpha/ds2.9a18/fluffos-2.16-ds04/ChangeLog.fluffos-2.x
Tue May 19 22:10:22 2009
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Adam@BlackDawn-Dev: i see compression related stuff but nothing about the protocol *shrugs*
Tue May 19 22:12:54 2009
[imud_code]
Adam@BlackDawn-Dev: well my mud client supports it, its not saying that its using it or not heehe
Tue May 19 22:14:17 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: looking at the dw source, you can check with compressedp(this_player())
Tue May 19 22:18:29 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: if you dont have it then you proably didnt compile zlib/compression in
Tue May 19 22:20:51 2009
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Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: If you have PACKAGE_COMRESS compiled it mccp should be enabled automatically if client announces support.
Tue May 19 22:21:04 2009
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Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: SImplest way to ckeck: install wireshark or tcpdump.
Tue May 19 22:24:25 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: ok, i recvompiled and compressedp() is available to me
Tue May 19 22:24:33 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: if it isnt available to you, you're Doing It Wrong
Tue May 19 22:25:10 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i get a 0, but at least the efun works
Tue May 19 22:25:51 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: is the efun defined for you, yes or no?
Tue May 19 22:26:25 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: you owe me all that time i just spent lol
Tue May 19 22:27:16 2009
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Adam@BlackDawn-FluffOS: i'll give u some code that u might find useful in DS that i knw no one else will have i will look for soemthing today
Tue May 19 22:29:34 2009
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Adam@BlackDawn-FluffOS: i am quite happy with fluffos some of the new packages i am still testing a but tho but they seem alright
Tue May 19 22:48:57 2009
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Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: how do you force it to use character mode?
Tue May 19 22:49:56 2009
[imud_code]
Kejope@Cookie Dough: Never occurred to me to try it until I read about your command completion. Then I thought, "Cool! I will have to try that ... someday." :/
Tue May 19 22:51:46 2009
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Rorix@Pains of Freedom isn't sure he'll do much tonight after all the reading.
Tue May 19 23:12:53 2009
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Ideysus@shadowmudii: "input display is not guaranteed correct" '"Raw" is not recommmended unless you know what you're doing'
Tue May 19 23:20:20 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: ah, if you resize the screen it resets the terminal and it starts sort of working
Wed May 20 20:33:00 2009
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Ideysus@shadowmudii: Okay. So I have a bash script with 'trap on_term EXIT' and 'trap on_term TERM'. When I ctl-c an echo in on_term displays.
Wed May 20 20:33:16 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Why doesn't it seem to get called when I 'kill myscript'
Wed May 20 20:34:23 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Oh. Well, I can't trap KILL, but I don't care about that. Why is INT caught? Hmm.
Wed May 20 20:36:41 2009
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Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: not sure, but seems that for bash it should be 'trap funcname TERM EXIT' or sth, on one call.
Wed May 20 20:37:26 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: also, trap -l prints the SIGxxx names, so maybe it need the prefix.
Wed May 20 20:37:28 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: 'killall -INT ip_logger' doesn't do the same as Ctl-C. Hrm.
Wed May 20 20:37:55 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: "Signal names are case insensitive and the SIG prefix is optional"...
Wed May 20 20:39:57 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Same thing with 'trap on_term EXIT TERM INT'. The handler is registered though, since it works with ctl-c
Wed May 20 20:41:41 2009
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Ideysus@shadowmudii: Also interestingly when I do kill it it doesn't actually die...
Wed May 20 20:42:52 2009
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Ideysus@shadowmudii: (that is even with the handler stripped down to merely 'exit 0')
Wed May 20 20:44:56 2009
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Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: when i ^C it it's called twice, once for INT and once for EXIT.
Wed May 20 20:46:39 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: (btw, switch to zsh, or even ksh. bash sux)
Wed May 20 20:49:02 2009
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Ideysus@shadowmudii: I never really got zsh. I use it on GRML and its just... meh.
Wed May 20 20:49:50 2009
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Ideysus@shadowmudii: Your program seems to work for me. Interesting.
Wed May 20 20:51:15 2009
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Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: it seems that if you set it for EXIT, it's called on any non-fatal signal, ie INT, TERM, maybe QUIT.
Wed May 20 20:51:38 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: thus, if it's EXIT and others, it get's called twice on signal and once on normal completion.
Wed May 20 20:51:57 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Thanks. I'll play with it a little. Got to go AFK.
Wed May 20 22:11:44 2009
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Ideysus@shadowmudii: It turned out "trap on_term EXIT TERM INT" didn't work, while 'trap on_term EXIT INT' did. Interesting.
Thu May 21 21:55:41 2009
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Ideysus@shadowmudii: Bash question. sleep 1|head& echo "PID: $! " prints the PID of 'head'. How do you print the PID of 'sleep'?
Thu May 21 21:56:17 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: (grepping ps or the like doesn't count :-) )
Thu May 21 21:59:21 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Wouldn't get just get the PID of a subshell?
Thu May 21 21:59:56 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: note that usually sleep is a shell builtin.
Thu May 21 22:00:20 2009
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Kalinash@Fire and Ice: it's what you do with your head vs. the wall
Thu May 21 22:02:56 2009
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Ideysus@shadowmudii: If only there was a PIPESTATUS but with pids...
Thu May 21 22:07:07 2009
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Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: tmpfunc () { sleep 15 &; var=$!; fg } intercrea crazy... worked _once_...
Thu May 21 22:07:25 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: er, ignore that func... i meant the latter message ;)
Thu May 21 22:09:15 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: ah cool, you can't run a backgoound process on a pipe...
Thu May 21 22:11:50 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: (echo $$; exec whatever) spawns a subshell, prints its pid, then replaces it with other process keeping the PID unchanged.
Thu May 21 22:12:33 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: you can also echo 1>&7 to pront the pin onto other descriptor so you can catch it... Or for simplicity redir it to file.
Thu May 21 22:12:40 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev screams, "Aaaaarrrgggghhh!!!" and pulls his hair out.
Thu May 21 22:13:18 2009
[imud_code]
Kejope@Cookie Dough casually picks up a pile of Raudhrskal hair and hangs it on the wall.
Thu May 21 22:14:14 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: anyway, imo that kind of problems tells you that shell script is the wrong tool to use.
Thu May 21 22:16:34 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: bottom line? (echo $$ > the_pid; exec thecmd) | head &; cmdspid=`cat the_pid'; ...
Thu May 21 22:17:43 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: i'm too tired to try passing the pid thru an arbitrary descriptor, tho it's doable. First you'd need to set up a reeadpipe on some fd, and then echo $$ 1>&fdnum .
Thu May 21 22:18:07 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev realizes that he already said all that.
Thu May 21 22:20:58 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Crat... i can't even start h8n you, cause I know i'd make a similar comment at somebody else in this situation...
Thu May 21 23:23:44 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: That was a really good idea, Raudhrk...whatever.
Thu May 21 23:40:21 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Interestingly $$ in the () subshell returns the parent's pid.
Thu May 21 23:41:06 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Also, I passed the 'bash is an appropriate tool' point a while ago. I'm not -quite- at the 'time to rewrite in perl' mark yet.
Fri May 22 20:39:15 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Suppose a linux machine has eth0 and eth1, 1.1.1.1 and 1.1.1.2 respectively. At that machine if you send packets from 1.1.1.1 to 1.1.1.2 they go via lo, not out through the physical network (eth0 and back into eth1). Why? What makes this happen? Something below the level of 'route'?
Fri May 22 20:42:23 2009
[imud_code]
Wodan@Discworld: i don't think they go over lo, it's just that the kernel realises that the packet needs to go local so it doesn't send it out
Fri May 22 20:46:23 2009
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Ideysus@shadowmudii: Oh. Hmm. Turning lo off might be interesting. tshark does show the traffic on lo.
Fri May 22 20:47:23 2009
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Ideysus@shadowmudii: I suppose arp is worth investigating too. Perhaps it sticks the ip under 'lo'.
Fri May 22 20:47:57 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: it comes before 'regular' routes, and will tell the kernel the ip is local.
Fri May 22 21:38:30 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: For the record it looks like 'ip route show table local' is where it happens and the solution is to 'ip rule' to inspect iif.
Sat May 23 17:36:39 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: hmm, a while ago there was a discussion about multiple muds sharing a single intermud 3 connection.
Sat May 23 17:37:29 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: Crat said to not try that, and I said *wpr forbid it. Actually, doing so violates the i3 spec, at least as it was intended by the authors of that spec.
Sat May 23 17:37:41 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: "Generally, many of the fields will be replaced with numbers rather than full strings. Some of the fields can be paired up using various combined keys. For example, originator_mudname can almost always be ommitted since it can be inferred from the TCP session at the router end. Also, all the request/reply pairs can use a request key rather than recording actual user names (the user is associated with the request key on the originating mud)."
Sat May 23 17:38:03 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: this will not work when muds share an i3 connection, eventho this isn't implemented anywhere.
Sat May 23 17:39:16 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: but it shows that not forbidding the idea of multiple muds on a single connection was an oversight, and not intentional.
Sat May 23 20:09:42 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: I dunno. 'almost always be omitted since it can be inferred from the TCP session' could be taken to mean that it can't always be inferred.
Sat May 23 20:10:46 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: it means that the authors assume that there is a single mud on each connection.
Sat May 23 20:11:57 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: that still doesn't mean you will always know the mudname, since you don't know untill it authenticated the session.
Sat May 23 20:12:22 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: but reading it as 'multiple muds on a connection is supported by the spec' is imho wishful thinking.
Sat May 23 20:13:27 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: It still doesn't seem like the idea is excluded :-)
Sat May 23 20:14:15 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: that's because common sense is implied.
Sat May 23 20:14:28 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: whatever you want to read, Ideysus. It is not excluded, but that is clearly an oversight considering the assumptions speaking from the rest of the text.
Sat May 23 20:15:39 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: that doesn't change that it can be an interesting idea, and the current spec can definitely support it if desired.
Sat May 23 20:17:06 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: An active TCP session (in MUD mode) is maintained between a mud and its router.
Sat May 23 20:17:25 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: that pretty much excludes mud <--> mud <--> router :)
Sat May 23 21:38:16 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: it states: that every intermud connection has a mud at one end and a router at the other.
Sat May 23 21:38:55 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Thus, whatever it is at that other end, no matter what kind of merger/forwarder you make, is a "one mud" as far as router and I3 is concerned.
Sun May 24 18:37:47 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Does anybody use external_start? It doesn't seem documented, I've had to poke through the source to find out about it. Is it stable?
Sun May 24 18:38:34 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: The alternative being to listen on a socket and launch programs with another process
Sun May 24 18:39:33 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: there's a mudos manpage for external_start... not sure if there are any docs for PACKAGE_EXTERNAL, but it mostly works.
Sun May 24 18:40:05 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: you enable the package in local_options, specify the commands in mudos.cfg, and use external_start from inside the mud.
Sun May 24 19:13:24 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Yeah, I have that defined and NUM_EXTERNAL_CMDS is 5... The really odd thing is if I call external_start(999999, ...) it just silently returns -7 instead of erroring... (the first line of code in the driver reads 'if (--which < 0 || [snip] ) error()'
Sun May 24 19:16:01 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: possibly, it uses sockets after all.
Sun May 24 19:16:59 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Sometimes I think about putting the mudos documentation into a wiki and adding notes about this kind of thing...
Sun May 24 19:41:20 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Everytime you get a segfault, God kills a dozen of Windows machines. Thus we see it's good.
Mon May 25 01:45:53 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Hmm... The write callback isn't called initially for external_start?
Mon May 25 03:36:22 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: tim's comments explicitly state that he's allowing mutiple muds from one connection
Mon May 25 03:37:08 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: never tried it, i didnt expect it would
Mon May 25 03:38:34 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: well, you could have one connection for multiple muds in the situation that they were connected to a different router I guess
Mon May 25 03:38:52 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: yeah the utility of it is clear in the case of a bridge
Mon May 25 03:39:07 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: beyond that i'm not sure the usefulness
Mon May 25 03:39:44 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i see now why dude was all militant about it being ok
Mon May 25 03:40:04 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: tim's comments in his router express his opinion that gjs allowed it
Mon May 25 03:41:38 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: I think it would be required if you wished to set up a big inter-router network, since gjs never connected to anything else I guess it was not really relied upon
Mon May 25 03:42:00 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: but you've already got 3 or 4 routers in your i3 network
Mon May 25 03:43:34 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and i think it's better to have an explicit inter router spec
Mon May 25 03:43:51 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: than an ad hoc "however people interpret this" thing
Mon May 25 05:10:56 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Hey, its disturbing to get called militant by a nazi. :-(
Mon May 25 09:32:00 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaHub: multiple muds on a single connection can work (if the router doesn't deny it actively) because each i3 packet has a source and destination independent of the underlying tcp source/destination addresses
Mon May 25 09:33:43 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaHub: I have had it work as an experiment for a little while :)
Mon May 25 09:34:48 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaHub: the first reason why *wpr will not allow it is because sessions are authenticated. As long as no authentication took place, the only thing that is allowed is an authentication request. Once authenticated, every packet received on that connection has to come from the authenticated mud on the other end.
Mon May 25 09:37:26 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaHub: I could allow multiple muds to authenticate on a single connection, but wouldn't be able to tell them apart. This also means it cannot be detected from the router that one of them went down.
Mon May 25 09:37:48 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaHub: all in all, this is enough argument for me to not allow it, and to argue that it is a really bad idea to allow.
Mon May 25 09:38:38 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaHub: bridging can be done with a slight variation on the irn spec, and that will work a lot better because it allows adding proper information to the mudlist.
Mon May 25 18:53:44 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: I don't agree with that. You don't need to tell multiple authenticated muds apart. If the tcp connection dies then they are all down. If the tcp connection remains up then the host you are communicating with is up. That is all the router needs to know. The host which is connecting directly to the router is responsible for the connections. Suppose it determines that one of the actual muds is down then it would be reasonable for it to deliver a shutdown packet to the router.
Mon May 25 18:55:12 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: but iRN protocol is designed in a way that makes such gateways work better and seamlessly integrate their clients with the network.
Mon May 25 18:56:08 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev proposes an amendment to the spec: 666. Multiplexing muds on a single connection is now explicitly FORBIDDEN.
Mon May 25 18:58:34 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Do you think that putting a multimud gateway on this network without permission would be allowed?
Mon May 25 18:59:04 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: And if The Mgt agrees, adding your node to iRN shouldn't be that hard.
Mon May 25 19:00:46 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: what prevents a mud behind that bridge from spoofing data about anothe rmud behind that bridge?
Mon May 25 19:01:27 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: This is really just an optimisation though. The muliplexing is really just cutting down a lot of traffic for a system which is possible anyway.
Mon May 25 19:01:50 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: There is nothing to stop somebody building exactly the same system with single host connections
Mon May 25 19:02:22 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: my own router allows multiple muds from one connection, I have no idea if the original one did or not because I didn't test for it I don't think... I only supported it myself because it was trivial and almost the same (difficulty-wise) as disallowing it... I could imagine a couple reasons someone might want to have 1 connection that represents multiple muds for some reason, so I allowed it, but I didn't write anything to use it
Mon May 25 19:02:27 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: I don't understand, Cratylus. How are things able to spoof?
Mon May 25 19:02:55 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it is difficult for you to send a message from your mud that looks like it's coming from my mud
Mon May 25 19:03:25 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: because the router checks to see if your fd is right for the mud you claim to be
Mon May 25 19:03:27 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: In theory it shouldn't be possible. I don't see how either system allows it.
Mon May 25 19:04:00 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Yes. And of course the router does the same thing when there are multiple muds authenticated on a single fd...
Mon May 25 19:04:35 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Good grief this has dragged out. How long ago was it I said 'Oh. This is a cool feature'? :-)
Mon May 25 19:05:50 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Argh. No I don't. Every time it is somebody else.
Mon May 25 19:06:06 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: you just brought it up, i saw it just now
Mon May 25 19:07:09 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i actually dont have an opinion or care much about what the spec can be interpreted to say
Mon May 25 19:07:21 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: nor do i care much of people try to do it
Mon May 25 19:07:30 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i just dont want to be expected to support it
Mon May 25 19:07:45 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and of course it winds up being a spof for people behind that bridge
Mon May 25 19:08:11 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: because all it takes is one rule breaker behind that bridge to ruin it for everyone else behind that bridge
Mon May 25 19:08:14 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: No more than the current router is a single point of failure.
Mon May 25 19:08:38 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: In which case you would block the ip, rather than the mud?
Mon May 25 19:09:07 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: I suppose it happens. You get people spam blacklisting the entirity of china.
Mon May 25 19:10:24 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i have no way of trusting that bridge to prevent the mud from just reconnecting under another name
Mon May 25 19:10:37 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: so i might block it, i might not, i dunno
Mon May 25 19:11:32 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Okay. If you blacklisted our ip how many other muds on genesis would get caught up?
Mon May 25 19:12:20 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: (You know I'd tunnel it through somewhere else just to spite Crat... :-P )
Mon May 25 19:12:43 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: not really much i could do if someones determined to be a pest
Mon May 25 19:13:40 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: I just don't see the situation as that different.
Mon May 25 19:13:55 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Anyway. Yeah. I'll drop it until next time somebody brings it up :-P
Wed May 27 22:14:16 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Actually, does anybody have success with utf8 at all? Do any clients handle it well?
Wed May 27 22:17:26 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: I'm trying to figure out what the majority of people see with bytes > 127. I suspect most actual mud clients use ascii or some kind of national 8 bit codepagey thing.
Wed May 27 22:35:57 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Does DW (or anywhere for that matter) actually use utf8 anywhere apart from for player chat? :-)
Wed May 27 22:37:44 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Cruel idea: Write a quest that makes somebody decode runes or something :-)
Sun May 31 23:45:17 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: LD is going to change license?! That would be seriously cool.
Sun May 31 23:50:19 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: I guess I should evaluate going MudOS->LD instead of MudOS->Fluff
Sun May 31 23:53:21 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: there's like 3 things to modify in fluff to make your v22.2b14 lib run on it
Sun May 31 23:53:26 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: It'll be some time before I get around to it.
Sun May 31 23:53:37 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: a port to ld is quite a different undertakinfg
Sun May 31 23:54:00 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: the heartbeat, your local_options, and whatever the 3rd thing is that i forget
Sun May 31 23:54:22 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: local_options goes without saying. Heartbeat??
Sun May 31 23:54:36 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: whereas a move to ld involves changing grammar in the lib
Sun May 31 23:54:38 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Oh. Right. So less than bringing it up to the most recent mudos.
Sun May 31 23:55:17 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Hmm. I thought it was largely the same. I recall the socket stuff was dramatically different.
Sun May 31 23:56:21 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Hrm. I thought it had those as well as the symbol thing.
Sun May 31 23:56:40 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: oh? perhaps it does these days... use to just be the lambda() syntax
Sun May 31 23:56:58 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: also didn't used to support verb parsing
Sun May 31 23:57:30 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: not saying it's a bad driver, but a pain to port a Mud/FluffOS lib to
Sun May 31 23:58:06 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Though maybe fluffos is. I guess having DW and Dead Souls matters.
Sun May 31 23:58:15 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: I don't see much fluffos stuff on the web.
Sun May 31 23:58:29 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: so does a chihuahua, but you wouldn't necessarily want one ;)
Mon Jun 1 00:09:31 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Hmm. LD has some nice features. An auto include hook, a hook for methods that can't be resolved, more telnet options, mudos closures (yep!) and it looks like you can have proper closures rather than having to $(...) local variables, closures written as actual functions (its annoying being limited to an expression in (::))...
Mon Jun 1 00:21:34 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: ... PCRE, regular expression replacement, exploding... I agree though. It does look like it would take significant work to move to it.
Thu Jun 4 05:55:38 2009
[imud_code]
Darken@StarMUD: anyone awake that can remind me how to round a float to make it an integer?
Thu Jun 4 06:01:35 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: but you do use an old version of MudOS ;)
Thu Jun 4 06:07:16 2009
[imud_code]
Darken@StarMUD: oh, to_int(.5) returns 0... is there anyway to round?
Thu Jun 4 06:08:53 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: otherwise i suspect you'll need to write a rounding sefun
Thu Jun 4 06:10:28 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: someone will always complain about precision
Thu Jun 4 06:11:17 2009
[imud_code]
Mecha@UOSSMUD: It's not actually _that_ bad, but you're gonna get unexpected behavior.
Thu Jun 4 06:11:34 2009
[imud_code]
Mecha@UOSSMUD: People will do things, get _almost a .5, it'll be rounded down, and they'll be 'what?'
Thu Jun 4 06:11:55 2009
[imud_code]
Tahin@Kar Unol: Subtract floor(num) from num. If it's greater than 0.5, add 1 and return. Else return. How could that go wrong?
Thu Jun 4 06:13:41 2009
[imud_code]
Mecha@UOSSMUD: In abstract fake concept math, sure. Binary math (specifically, the floating point stnadard) is a bit fiddly. Even ints have bounds.
Thu Jun 4 06:14:07 2009
[imud_code]
Mecha@UOSSMUD: I mean, if you want to do it like that, it'll _work_, but you'll eventually hit a case where you expect a 0.5, and don't get it, and are very confused.
Thu Jun 4 06:14:58 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: eval return 664.79+1350.71+394.03+246.02
Thu Jun 4 06:16:11 2009
[imud_code]
Tahin@Kar Unol: That's interesting. Python gives me a different answer... I really don't feel like working that one out in my head.
Thu Jun 4 06:16:52 2009
[imud_code]
Mecha@UOSSMUD: Different systems will give different answers. They are _defined_ answers, you can look up how each system will perform, but most people don't CARE.
Thu Jun 4 06:17:24 2009
[imud_code]
Mecha@UOSSMUD: (The classic example is 'never ask if two floating points are equal.')
Thu Jun 4 06:17:59 2009
[imud_code]
Mecha@UOSSMUD: It's more natural for C coders to know. People who are too used to things like Python might not pick it up.;)
Thu Jun 4 06:18:32 2009
[imud_code]
Tahin@Kar Unol: Well, I'm not a C coder, so that makes sense. I almost exclusively use interpreted languages.
Thu Jun 4 06:19:02 2009
[imud_code]
Mecha@UOSSMUD: Sure. I can point you at more resources if you really, really, really want to know.
Thu Jun 4 06:19:43 2009
[imud_code]
Mecha@UOSSMUD: Integers/Integer always returns an Integer. 5 / 100 is 0 with a remainder of 5. So 0.
Thu Jun 4 06:21:05 2009
[imud_code]
Darken@StarMUD: ok. so if i to_float() the integers before doing the division, then ceil, then to_int() to get it back to an integer?
Thu Jun 4 06:21:37 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: we have no way of judging the suitablity of your process to your needs
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