Thu May 14 05:06:32 2009
[imud_code]
Ly'nx@shadowMUD Colony: there are no staged fights here however, at least not yet
Thu May 14 05:07:15 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: What happened to this channel? I haven't heard a single 'offtopic'.
Thu May 14 05:07:34 2009
[imud_code]
Salius@Lost Legends: why do you think i was so suprised to see chat in it?
Thu May 14 05:07:37 2009
[imud_code]
Demitris@Consua: I thought my jerry springer comment was a subtle hint
Thu May 14 05:11:08 2009
[imud_code]
Demitris@Consua: i've broken my skills using SetSpellBook it seems
Thu May 14 05:16:09 2009
[imud_code]
Demitris@Consua: i've broken my skills by adding a skill that doesn't exist
Thu May 14 07:13:50 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: curious. someone complaining about mudlist packet flood after having himself flooded all connected muds out there with invalid channels. What is it that makes people critisize while at the same time showing they didn't understand the thing they critisize? :P
Thu May 14 07:15:44 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: well, they should be prepared to get payed back in kind :P
Thu May 14 07:27:08 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: most of us however try to prevent looking stupid on purpose.
Thu May 14 12:52:44 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: my way of handling that mudlist ID thing is in http://www.darkwoodinc.com/~tim/code/i3_router/send_mudlist_updates.h which was I broke up the mudlist into chunks, and then for all the chunks except the last one, just send the mudlist ID that they had claimed to have, and then on the last packet then give the current mudlist ID... it won't delete entries in your list from *gjs, but if you connected to mine with a blank list, then stayed offline for 6 months and came back and I didn't purge your MUD, then you'd get just the changed parts
Thu May 14 12:55:07 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: and if something crashes your MUD after you got and handled the first packet but before you got the last part, then you'd still have your original mudlist ID saved, but you would have some partial updates added, so when you come back you'll just re-get those partial updates plus the rest
Thu May 14 12:55:52 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: or at least that's how the comments are; I didn't trace through just now, and I haven't programmed on it in years so I don't remember it now
Thu May 14 19:06:33 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Aidil, please can you tell me which packet I'm sending you are not happy with?
Thu May 14 19:18:37 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Are you saying I'm sending a bad error packet? I can't see any recent error packets.
Thu May 14 19:19:21 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: 19:06:39 <imud_code> Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Aidil, please can you tell me which packet I'm sending you are not happy with?
Thu May 14 19:20:06 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: which made me think you were getting an error from one of my muds about some packet you were sending.
Thu May 14 19:20:24 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: You were complaining somewhere back in the backlog.
Thu May 14 19:20:53 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: You said I flooded you with invalid channels.
Thu May 14 19:23:40 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: has long since been resolved. you added some channels, which ended up with a bad value for the channel type.
Thu May 14 19:24:30 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: which in turn spams me a bit since I administrate *wpr, and it refused the channels and complained somewhat loudly about it :P
Thu May 14 19:25:06 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: the 'flooding' wasn't your doing btw, thats more the resynchronisation between routers.
Thu May 14 19:25:38 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Because I haven't altered any code since then. My end just seemed to start working. If I 'flooded all connected muds out there with invalid channels.' 'and didn't understand the thing they critisize' then I really need to know what I'm doing wrong.
Thu May 14 19:28:03 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: heh. the data was fixed, adding some hosted channel is a one time action. As I said, I administrate a router on the network, so I get to see things when they go wrong. But then, the intention of my comment was very simple.
Thu May 14 19:29:06 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: you are very vocal about how things 'should' be changed, but until you have a full picture of how the thing works, and why, that might not be a very useful approach.
Thu May 14 19:30:27 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: for the rest I don't think this discussion belongs on this channel :)
Thu May 14 19:30:52 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: I believe I understand the protocol though I'm not really interested in the router to router connection. I'll admit the 'why' escapes me in places.
Thu May 14 19:31:27 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Okay. Well if you can't point to any actual problems then I'm done.
Thu May 14 19:32:03 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: one. when you added hosted channels, there was data missing, specifically, the type for the channel was missing.
Thu May 14 19:33:14 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: See, I'm still convinced that where the router was inserting ({}) I was sending 0|1|2
Thu May 14 19:34:30 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: I see. well, we'll see when it so happens you add a channel again. its not a problem during normal operation of the system anyway, and since I don't have the actual packets I'm also in no position to say if you are right or not :)
Fri May 15 01:16:01 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Neat. I screwed up a finger packet and broadcasted it... and discovered an old character I'd forgotton from 5 years ago...
Fri May 15 01:48:57 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: the router didnt magically add replace your integer with an empty array
Fri May 15 01:49:35 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: you're not the first person ever to try to add a channel
Fri May 15 01:49:47 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and you're not the first to refuse to accept your packets were broken
Fri May 15 01:57:54 2009
[imud_code]
Keeperofkeys@BlackDawn-Dev: is there a way in ds to run system commands for example system("ls /home/") and get back the results :P
Fri May 15 01:58:33 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: but you are limited to the root of the mudlib
Fri May 15 01:58:43 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: there is a driver package that lets you run external commands
Fri May 15 01:58:54 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: but it's a big security risk to allow such things
Fri May 15 01:58:58 2009
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Keeperofkeys@BlackDawn-Dev: how if i wannted to start say get something for an app such as fortune?
Fri May 15 01:59:09 2009
[imud_code]
Keeperofkeys@BlackDawn-Dev: how about if i wannted to start say get something for an app such as fortune?
Fri May 15 02:00:23 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: totally unsupported, requires a recompile of the driver, and really a bad idea
Fri May 15 02:00:30 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: external_start carries a terrible curse!
Fri May 15 02:00:36 2009
[imud_code]
Keeperofkeys@BlackDawn-Dev gives Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev a high five!
Fri May 15 02:01:56 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: There's a job for you in the System boy with nothing to sign
Fri May 15 02:02:01 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it's a loaded pistol with a hairtrigger
Fri May 15 02:02:44 2009
[imud_code]
Keeperofkeys@BlackDawn-Dev: i guess i could get a php script to run it when called by the mud via http :)P
Fri May 15 02:03:04 2009
[imud_code]
Keeperofkeys@BlackDawn-Dev: kinda hack like or i guess i could write a fortune app
Fri May 15 02:04:51 2009
[imud_code]
Tacitus@Rock the Halo: If there is, just write LPC bindings for it.
Fri May 15 02:05:21 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: the fluff stack machine is pretty easy to figure out... just look at an existing efun
Fri May 15 02:25:38 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Is the router bascially an unmodified DS?
Fri May 15 02:26:09 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: That is, if i download DS do I have my own test router, identical to i4?
Fri May 15 02:26:57 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i4 has the latest a19 updates which you do not have access to
Fri May 15 02:29:25 2009
[imud_code]
Keeperofkeys@BlackDawn-Dev: crat keeps his dooms day devices in a19 ;)
Fri May 15 02:30:50 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: course, those updates are mostly about dealing with people who send broken channel-adds
Fri May 15 02:31:16 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: so if yer looking for evidence that it was really i4's fault, a18 is the code to inspect anyway
Fri May 15 02:41:31 2009
[imud_code]
Keeperofkeys@BlackDawn-Dev: I3 is able to send news like the newbie news in ds from the router do u support it?
Fri May 15 02:43:24 2009
[imud_code]
Keeperofkeys@BlackDawn-Dev: umm i'll find the code for it i had it in my router that i wrote i'll email it to u tonight when i get home
Fri May 15 02:44:02 2009
[imud_code]
Keeperofkeys@BlackDawn-Dev: http://mud.stack.nl/intermud/intermud3.html#news
Fri May 15 02:45:11 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Oooooh. Multiple muds on one connection? Thats a nice feature.
Fri May 15 02:45:52 2009
[imud_code]
Keeperofkeys@BlackDawn-Dev: u could add it in to ur ds libs by default etc thats wat i was thinking
Fri May 15 02:46:49 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: The router source says it handles multiple muds on one connection
Fri May 15 05:24:17 2009
[imud_code]
Sinistrad@Dead Souls Dev: Oh wait, this is a serious channel - umm, walked into a bar and then coded up a storm of simul_efuns!
Fri May 15 16:50:40 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: *wpr won't support multiple muds on one connection btw, Ideysus.
Fri May 15 16:52:35 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: ok, the coffee is still just brewed so maybe i'm slow, but how would you do that? the i3 connection is a tcp connection...
Fri May 15 16:52:50 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: or you mean different instances of the same mud name?
Fri May 15 16:53:18 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: i3 packets have a source and destination, so its easy to send data between multiple muds over a single connection.
Fri May 15 16:53:44 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: irn wraps packets with another header, but essentially uses this.
Fri May 15 16:53:58 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: but then the muds would have to also route packets, no?
Fri May 15 16:54:21 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: client side issue, of no concern to the router :)
Fri May 15 16:55:07 2009
[imud_code]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: hmmm... sounds like something more complicated than it would be worth
Fri May 15 16:55:33 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: *wpr doesn't support it because the connection gets mud specific properties including the protocol used by the mud, and does version specific translations.
Fri May 15 16:57:14 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: but in theory, it can be made to work. I don't see much of a point in it either.
Fri May 15 16:58:47 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: but, speaking in network terms, trunking or multiplexing i3 connections is trivial in itself, the protocol has everything needed for it.
Fri May 15 17:02:10 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: It would be an interesting way to make a mini unofficial router I guess.
Fri May 15 17:03:45 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: One could write what looks like a router that actually forwards all connections on to a proper router. I dunno. I guess you could do that with a multiple connections though
Fri May 15 17:04:18 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: well, in theory you could, but its not desirable imho.
Fri May 15 17:04:41 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Of course, the router could send broadcasts only once.
Fri May 15 17:05:14 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Maybe you couldn't. What about OOB messages?
Fri May 15 17:05:39 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: I'm not sure if they allow setting ip.
Fri May 15 17:06:05 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: nope. ip is the ip you come from as the router sees it.
Fri May 15 17:06:23 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: but still, beyond the theoretical fact that you could, why would you.
Fri May 15 17:06:53 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: it seems to me that if you wanted to write a router, its more useful to write a proper router with irn support :)
Fri May 15 17:07:24 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: that way you can easily add your own custom variations on the i3 protocol and stay compatible with everyone else.
Fri May 15 17:08:07 2009
[imud_code]
Sys@BlackHole: surely it's not a router if all it does is forward to the one destination, surely that's a forwarder
Fri May 15 17:08:46 2009
[imud_code]
Kejope@Cookie Dough: Does *wpr use different code than Dead Souls? Because I was able to have two muds up and communicating with the Dead Souls router with no issue.
Fri May 15 17:08:53 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: it is in ip terms acting as default router for your local muds.
Fri May 15 17:09:35 2009
[imud_code]
Sys@BlackHole: I'd say that's only half the job of the router, the input side, and tbh the output side is where the routing happnes
Fri May 15 17:09:43 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: yes, *wpr uses different code. It was written from scratch after deriving an irn spec from the DS based router.
Fri May 15 17:10:57 2009
[imud_code]
Kejope@Cookie Dough: I made a tiny script to copy my directory to a test directory, then change a couple of things to make it unique. Done. No problems. :)
Fri May 15 17:11:23 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: I should stop listening to this. There is a real danger that I will start wasting time playing with it.
Fri May 15 17:11:41 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: but that would be 2 muds from the same ip. thats supported by all routers iirc.
Fri May 15 17:12:56 2009
[imud_code]
Kejope@Cookie Dough: Ah. That's what I get for glancing at you chatters while trying to "work." :>
Fri May 15 18:49:20 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: depending on how much Cratylus changed it from my own I3 router, this might or might not already support sending multiple MUDs packets through one connection
Fri May 15 18:50:35 2009
[imud_code]
Kejope@Cookie Dough: So are you saying that YOURS might or might not support it or that HIS might or might not support it? :P
Fri May 15 18:52:15 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: mine supports it, he is using a derivative of mine, and he may have done things that break support for that
Fri May 15 18:52:44 2009
[imud_code]
Jane@shadowMUD Colony: he did say he wouldn't recommend trying it ;)
Fri May 15 18:53:01 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: since nobody was using a fowarding thing like that at the time that I wrote it, and likely nobody is now, I'm not sure if he would be thinking along those lines whenever he did whatever changes he was doing
Fri May 15 18:53:10 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: It was Tim's comment in the source that I mentioned.
Fri May 15 18:55:12 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: also since I didn't write my own multi-mud thing to connect with, and I think I only tested it with one client I was manually playing with, I'm not even sure if mine supported it fully
Fri May 15 18:57:49 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it's liable to be regarded as an error condition in my version
Fri May 15 18:58:43 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i dont remember intentionally breaking it, but more than one mud on one fd is the sort of thing i'd probably check for as an error, not an intentional event
Fri May 15 18:59:01 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: if you're running like a MUD hosting service or something and you have lots of MUDs and you think channel messages coming to your machine multiple times is bad, then one could write such a forwarding thing I suppose... also it didn't do router<->router stuff on the version I put out, but to my understanding he added it, so if you want you could probably just ask Cratylus and he might just let you run your own server that's like equal to his or whatever
Fri May 15 19:01:08 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: the only practical purpose i can think of for it is bridging between different intermud protocols
Fri May 15 19:01:47 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: other than that, it's a weird thing to do
Fri May 15 19:02:37 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: basically if you made the startup packet check if the fd has already sent a startup, and then give an error if they have, then that would break it, but you'd have to be changing stuff in that particular section of code for there to be that happening
Fri May 15 19:03:02 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: dude says he got it working, which surprised me
Fri May 15 19:03:04 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: that's actually a better reason than saving bandwidth on 5 MUDs on the same machine example I used a minute ago :P
Fri May 15 19:03:11 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: since i thought i had put in fd conflict checks
Fri May 15 19:03:53 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: way back when, i had problems when vargon reconnected like 42 times per second
Fri May 15 19:03:55 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: are imc2 clients connected to here via a bridge thing like that created by whatever dude you were just talking about?
Fri May 15 19:04:03 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: The other thing is it would allow you to have an unauthorised bridge.
Fri May 15 19:04:55 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: I remember something somewhere saying imc2 ones were on here and I didn't look to see if it was just a channel forwarded or what
Fri May 15 19:04:57 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: the imc2 clients connect to a special imc2 port on the router
Fri May 15 19:05:10 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: which magically trandlates between the protocols
Fri May 15 19:05:17 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: not really a bridge so much as a translation module
Fri May 15 19:05:48 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and yes, i actually dont like the idea of people bridging
Fri May 15 19:06:15 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: there is an abstraction of responsibility which occurs which i think winds up forcing fascism eventually
Fri May 15 19:07:20 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: I mean, you hold the keys to i3 in your hands anyway.
Fri May 15 19:07:41 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: there's no reason imc2 peers and i3 peers can't peer each other
Fri May 15 19:07:44 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: I don't see how bridges are differrent.
Fri May 15 19:08:00 2009
[imud_code]
Hellmonger@Trilogy: i thought imc2 had incompatible politics and rules
Fri May 15 19:08:07 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: give me a moment and i'll unconfuse you
Fri May 15 19:08:19 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: You mean imc and i3 just use multiple routers?
Fri May 15 19:08:46 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: years back the "main" standard router was gjs
Fri May 15 19:09:17 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: this guy named adam set up a mud that connected to both routers
Fri May 15 19:09:35 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and he broadcast stuff from one router to the other router, and vice versa
Fri May 15 19:09:48 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: that is what i am referring to as a bridge
Fri May 15 19:10:00 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Ah. Didn't somebody do that with i2 for a while?
Fri May 15 19:10:20 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i'm not offended by this, but it has problems in that the admins of one network can have policies that conflict with the other
Fri May 15 19:10:37 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and eventually someone will force things, and the bridge mud will have to be baned from somewhere for some reason
Fri May 15 19:10:51 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: that's what i meant b abstraction of responbsibility, and eventual fascvism
Fri May 15 19:11:03 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: But can't the muds on the foreign end of the brige still be blocked?
Fri May 15 19:11:07 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: so, that's "bridging". it was done with irc too
Fri May 15 19:11:36 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: what i offered to do was join the imc2 peer network
Fri May 15 19:12:01 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: such that rather than two separate networks joined by some arbitrary umbilicus
Fri May 15 19:12:11 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: there is in effect a single network with multiple peers
Fri May 15 19:13:08 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: as to conflicting policies, the imc2 people have recently implemented rules based on the i3 rules i set up
Fri May 15 19:13:24 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: from both a technical and policy standpoint, it's utterly doable
Fri May 15 19:13:40 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Oh. When you say a bridge you mean the bridge was preseting to the foreign network as a single mud. Kind of like NAT
Fri May 15 19:14:04 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: there were separate IMC2 networks at one time too, also with bridges that only connected the channels but not forwarding tells between them and stuff, and there were 3 separate networks at one time, and even though people had already coded cooperative servers, they added the bridges so that one network could be just certain type of muds, one network could be pretty open, and one could be some other category of MUDs
Fri May 15 19:14:06 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: the main roadblack is that the guy who is looked at as the imc2 overlord really really really doesnt like me
Fri May 15 19:14:12 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: So you'd get Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev_BridgeMUD
Fri May 15 19:15:04 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Err... Cratylus_Dead Souls Dev@BridgeMUD
Fri May 15 19:16:00 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: and what happened with the 3 networks was one had this guy running it who was blocking people he didn't like from talking to other muds in his group (muds that he wasn't an admin on or anything)
Fri May 15 19:17:25 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: I guess thats better than the same situation with a single network...
Fri May 15 19:17:28 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: so everybody migrated to the other 2 networks except for the mud admins who didn't fully understand what was going on
Fri May 15 19:26:42 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: it's hard to explain and be polite and junk, so I'll just use the names... but at one point there was ICE-MAN, MudDomain, and MudWorld... ICE-MAN was this one guy who was doing political junk all the time and bashing everybody, and MudDomain was mostly independent people, and MudWorld was invitation-only and was like enforced independent (if you were bashing ICE-MAN or MD on MudWorld then you had to quit)...... and anyway, they competed with each other; ICE-MAN had its own exclusive IMC2 client associated with it, etc, and so eventually I decided to start using IMC2, I go on the first public one I find (muddomain), I find the mudworld one, but choose not to join it because it has channel rules and I don't feel like enforcing it on whoever logs in to my auto-wiz TimMUD, then I connect to the other 'public' one I find (ice-man), and they're all pissed that I'm connected to the other one... I tell 'em I don't care about their politics, but my own client is capable of connecting to multiple routers, so might as well talk to a separate crowd sometimes too, I'm not fowarding messages from one to the other, spying on you guys, etc... so anyway, if you can do actual peers without drama queens running them and banning people that your peer doesn't want to ban and junk, then that's preferable
Fri May 15 19:28:58 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: I think the admin of ICE-MAN freaking out about some random coder who wrote his own LPC IMC2 client logging in to his circle of friends, and then all their users seeing him respond to it, is probably why ICE-MAN closed real soon after
Fri May 15 19:29:08 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Good grief. I think I remember some of this. Did one of them have some kind of 'Join our network and get free hosting' deal?
Fri May 15 19:30:41 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: I was a little unsure about whether I should target i3 or imc when moving us from i2.
Fri May 15 19:31:13 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Pinkfish! The reference standard! Are you pro #RRGGBB?
Fri May 15 19:31:24 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: as i see it, the only thing what needs "policing" is channels, so conflictsin policies pretty much are limited to who owns what channel
Fri May 15 19:31:48 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: (I was asking about 256 colour pinkfish codes the other day)
Fri May 15 19:32:13 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: so i see no practical problem with unification
Fri May 15 19:32:27 2009
[imud_code]
Detah@Dead Souls Dev: salmon should be a usable color. and thats all Im gonna say about that.
Fri May 15 19:35:16 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i've been meaning to integrate a zebedee client in ds
Fri May 15 19:35:40 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: wonder if maybe i should do it at the router
Fri May 15 19:37:47 2009
[imud_code]
Detah@Dead Souls Dev: what is the name of the router that all the german muds are on? I thought it was called i2. but it seems to be different than what you are talking about.
Fri May 15 19:38:12 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: I2 has some germans. It doesn't have a router though.
Fri May 15 19:38:48 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: i2 and zebedee are p2p networks, iirc.
Fri May 15 19:38:55 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: weird thing about imc2, there dont seem to be very many non-americans there, except a few using ds muds
Fri May 15 19:39:30 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: but other than that is seems oddly sheltered
Fri May 15 19:40:17 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: well.. as non american, you encounter their pseudo overlord once and you decide that it isn't the place for you to be :P
Fri May 15 19:40:19 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: well, imc2 is standard in the most recent dikus only. i guess that most of the non-us muds are too old to use it, OR just don't care, OR, never found that snippet...
Fri May 15 19:42:28 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: heh i think like 50% of imc2 muds are actually ds muds
Fri May 15 19:43:06 2009
[imud_code]
Kejope@Cookie Dough: Sounds like you might have some weight to press for the unification. :)
Fri May 15 19:43:43 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i think they'll come around eventually without me getting pushy
Fri May 15 19:44:32 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: sure it does :) but then.. all of imc2 could just connect to *dalet and be done with it.
Fri May 15 19:47:05 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: btw, the p2p nature of zebedee and i2 might make bridging with those somewhat non trivial.
Fri May 15 19:48:04 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: been putting it off a long time, i think because of suspicions along those lines
Fri May 15 19:48:22 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: well... i'm not sure how it works... but i think that zebedee has some kind of duplicates protection.
Fri May 15 19:48:47 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: if so, there wouldn'e be much of a problem to let a few nodes of the p2p connect to the bridge.
Fri May 15 19:48:49 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: conceptual problem is that you will have a single peer with many different identities (the router)
Fri May 15 19:49:02 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: which seems like something many clients wouldn't consider.
Fri May 15 19:49:17 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: the router may jjust simulate another node forwarding requests.
Fri May 15 19:49:33 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: Madoc@BlackDawn had his connect to IMC2 a long time ago and was bridging the chat but I don't know if it did tells and whos and junk
Fri May 15 19:49:35 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: i'm pretty sure that zebedee is not all-to-all.
Fri May 15 19:49:42 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: that depends on if the protocol supports that properly.
Fri May 15 19:50:21 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: but well, will have to make me a zebedee implementation sometime and see :)
Fri May 15 19:50:32 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: wait. i'm making some assumptions here.
Fri May 15 19:51:09 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: assumption one being that it is not all to all. if true then it might work.
Fri May 15 19:51:50 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: assumption two, possibility of redundant connections between nodes.
Fri May 15 19:52:35 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: because zebedee suffers from out-of-order arrival problems because of transmission by different paths, i think both of these are true.
Fri May 15 19:52:58 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: like a fraggin' switched/routed ip network.
Fri May 15 19:53:07 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: it suffers from out of order arrival problems first because it uses udp iirc.
Fri May 15 19:53:52 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: yeah, but i heard that parts of same conversation are broadcasted on all possible connections. so, you get a lot of duplicated traffic.
Fri May 15 19:54:40 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: maube i should stop specualting and look for answers... but i'm too tired for that.
Fri May 15 19:54:48 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: I'm sure the other i2 people loved it when Madoc connected it and added like 20 new chatty MUDs who were all excited about spamming this new channel :P
Fri May 15 19:55:09 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i heard the zebedee people are afeard of me too :(
Fri May 15 19:57:30 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: it actually is all-to-all, and you have to keep track of all your peers yourself (though, it's possible to remember where incoming packets said they were from...) so if you were starting a new MUD, you would grab a friend's mudlist or get a published one off a web site, and you just say hi on the channel and then everybody'll know that you exist
Fri May 15 19:58:12 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: looking at the spec, it doesn't contain enough information to work in a non all to all situation.
Fri May 15 19:59:06 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: Merentha Lib has a client that's like i2/zebedee but uses different character separators or something, so if you want an LPC client that'll work with i2, just grab Merentha Lib and change some formatting based on the specs
Fri May 15 19:59:16 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: ie, destination is an indentifier for the destination user, there is no destination mud in the packet header.
Fri May 15 19:59:47 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: for me, since I'm on dgd, and am interested in the actual implementation details, writing my own client is a better route :)
Fri May 15 20:00:22 2009
[imud_code]
Kejope@Cookie Dough: No need for a client change. Just have the server keep track of the source MUD and who the server sent it to perhaps.
Fri May 15 20:00:59 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: that works one way only, kejope, and will never be reliable.
Fri May 15 20:02:08 2009
[imud_code]
Detah@Dead Souls Dev: tubmud and wunderland have both 'zebedee' and 'i3'. you might ask them how they resolved any issues.
Fri May 15 20:02:14 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: or you could use an unmodified Merentha Lib thing and then talk to the people on Merentha's builder port since they're all that use it last I checked
Fri May 15 20:03:20 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: Detah, problem is not having a client on both networks. Problem is having an i3 router provide transparant bridging with the zebedee network.
Fri May 15 20:04:34 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: if it's all to all, then we're in deep. Unless you could broadcast a hundred of muds with the same address.
Fri May 15 20:05:05 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: you can but have to allocate 2 seperate udp ports for each of those muds
Fri May 15 20:05:31 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: ie, the router have to act as a zebedee proxy of sorts for all i3 connected muds.
Fri May 15 20:07:01 2009
[imud_code]
Detah@Dead Souls Dev: Im afraid that is way over my head, A. I do not understand the difficulty that you describe. I have settled it with myself that adding the zombie-quiet zebeedee intermud to Arcania is a high work-low payoff endeavor, which I will not pursue.
Fri May 15 20:08:02 2009
[imud_code]
Detah@Dead Souls Dev: I was just chatting on there with 2 people from XK4 mud. a) they are not very friendly. and b) no coding chatter ever seems to occur there.
Fri May 15 20:08:07 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: difference is this.. a client on both networks means that your mud can talk on both and hear both.. a transparant bridge ran by an i3 router means that every i3 connected mud can talk to every zebedee connected muds
Fri May 15 20:09:58 2009
[imud_code]
Detah@Dead Souls Dev: I am not aware of any, C. course that doesnt mean they dont exist somewhere.
Fri May 15 20:12:27 2009
[imud_code]
Detah@Dead Souls Dev: there d-chat (german) channel gets some lively discussions a couple times a week. but its usually just friendly chitchat, non-code related. that reminds me. the evermore guys also have both intermuds up.
Fri May 15 20:16:56 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: it was Madoc@DarkeMUD and not @BlackDawn I was thinking of earlier... he wrote a thing that bridged the i2 chat to a channel on imc2, but all I ever saw on that channel coming from i2 was DarkeMUD, so I don't know if it's that inactive or what
Fri May 15 20:16:59 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Question: Why are i3 packets arrays instead of mappings? Performance?
Fri May 15 20:17:50 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: because that was what someone thought up some 15 years ago :P
Fri May 15 20:18:39 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: to be fair, there is more than one syntax for mappings in lpc, so making it arrays is actually kind of good
Fri May 15 20:18:47 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: but technically, since a packet contains fixed fields, there is no need for sending keys.
Fri May 15 20:18:59 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: How do you mean, more than one syntax?
Fri May 15 20:19:36 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: mapping were added later, not sure if they ever were retrofitted to the classic driver?
Fri May 15 20:19:55 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: There is no need if you are using the spec, but if you wanted to add fields then I guess you just have to append. Suppose somebody wanted to extend channels to include a description and a colour?
Fri May 15 20:20:13 2009
[imud_code]
Wodan@Discworld: code for mappings is rather old, are there really that many differences?
Fri May 15 20:20:17 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Don't some packets have mappings in them anyway?
Fri May 15 20:20:29 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: then you define a new spec, and send it to clients that report support for it in the extra field in startup
Fri May 15 20:20:34 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: suppose you want that, then you are building a new version of the protocol and need to write a spec
Fri May 15 20:21:46 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i think you can kludge on extensibility with the "extra" field
Fri May 15 20:21:51 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: to send a tell, there's no point in saying target-person=tim, target-mud=timmud, message=hi, etc, you can just say this is a tell... tim, timmud, message to add new services, you can just define your own stuff, and yes some packets do use mappings, the mudinfo packet for example uses a mapping, so you can put extra data such as web site or something without it having to be in specs
Fri May 15 20:21:53 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: re: wodan, yes. map[val] = nil; deletes an entry on dgd, map = ([ "a":val, "b":val, "a":val ]); is illegal on dgd (duplicate key) etc etc.
Fri May 15 20:21:59 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Ahh. I see. mudlist had no mapping in version 1.
Fri May 15 20:22:31 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: It may not be a syntax error on MudOS, but its redundant.
Fri May 15 20:23:35 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Redundant, yeah. BUT, valid. Don't assume that clients are perfect.
Fri May 15 20:23:44 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: at any rate, Ideysus, it might be a bit more productive to see how you can use the protocol as it exists instead of keeping at ways in which you could change it.
Fri May 15 20:23:48 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Aidil said the above is illegal on DGD. It may compile on MudOS, but it is redundant. Also the serialisation would strip the duplicate element out.
Fri May 15 20:23:51 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: and you can do your own packet types for new services, for example I added a beep service on my MUD, so if you send me a packet called beep that looks a lot like a tell without a message, then it'll beep me
Fri May 15 20:24:08 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: and the server has nothing special about beep packets, it just forwards them to wherever you said
Fri May 15 20:24:29 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i dont remember it, i think it was so weird i blocked it out
Fri May 15 20:25:23 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: doesnt take too many teeny differences in a data type to hose up a spec
Fri May 15 20:25:53 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: WOTFlib based muds use a mail sync protocol over i3.. nothing needed in the router for that.. but, chaninging existing packets is an entirely different matter. proper way of doing it is writing a new version of the spec and increasing the version number in the startup-req (and falling back to an older version if it gets you an error), or indicating it in the extra field.
Fri May 15 20:26:20 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: I'm not proposing changes, Aidil. Just curious.
Fri May 15 20:26:31 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: that might have been a thing of the ldmud mudmode implementation, crat. its not native :)
Fri May 15 20:26:48 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: well, you keep proposing 'what if I want to change X'.
Fri May 15 20:27:19 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: X is as it is, curiosity about what happens when you change it is slightly different from wondering why it is X :)
Fri May 15 20:27:39 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: They are both interesting questions, though.
Fri May 15 20:29:34 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: sure, but unless you are going to design and implement the next version of an intermud protocol, one is more productive then the other i think :)
Fri May 15 20:33:34 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: if you did want to update channels to have an extra description and default color flag, (I myself would love to have something in-MUD that tells you what the rules are per channel), one could change the channel creation and channel existance announcement packets on the router side so that they include those extra flags, and update the protocol version to 4 (and strip those flags when sending the same packets to people still using version 3), or what would work without changing the router is having some other separate packet for people who log on later to request info about the channel from the channel owner
Fri May 15 20:35:19 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: no, we add another element to the version, which can be the decimanl
Fri May 15 20:35:40 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it's kinda neat actually, how a lot of this can be totally independent of the router
Fri May 15 20:35:44 2009
[imud_code]
Kejope@Cookie Dough: Version 400, so that you have room for "4.00" in there. :)
Fri May 15 20:35:49 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: people can do all sortsa things on their own
Fri May 15 20:35:54 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: if you want to run into real incompatibility issues, add floats to the i3 spec
Fri May 15 20:36:29 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: in fact, it's probably a good idea to keep track of what people are broadcasting that isnt on the spec
Fri May 15 20:36:43 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and considering adding it to any version bump
Fri May 15 20:37:21 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: I think that I couldn't figure out what the difference between 1 and 2 are, but 2->3 I think the difference was that locate had an extra value in it, and the mudlist packet had admin e-mail and extra both added to it
Fri May 15 20:37:25 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: not interested in snooping people mud to mud custom pafckets
Fri May 15 20:37:40 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: imho, the first thing that should change with a new version is cleaning up the way mudlists and channel lists are synced tho.
Fri May 15 20:37:44 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: tho logging the headers of unknown packets isnt too intrusive
Fri May 15 20:38:08 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: indeed, tim. and between 1 and 2 I can lookup for you if you want.
Fri May 15 20:38:30 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: had to reverse engineer it from looking at my router trying to communicate with a v1 client :)
Fri May 15 20:39:07 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: ({"mudsex", 5, "Dead Souls Dev", "cratylus", "Haven", "duuk"....}) could be pretty intrusive...
Fri May 15 20:40:03 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: but iirc, the differences between 1 and 2 are in the mudinfo part of the startup request, and the mudlist format.
Fri May 15 20:44:24 2009
[imud_code]
Detah@Dead Souls Dev: I can see a need to add a filter to network room broadcasts. *shiver*
Fri May 15 20:44:27 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: I don't remember if I even found any mudlibs to download that sent a version 1 startup packet or if I just changed my own to say 1 to reverse engineer if packets were changed on the old router
Fri May 15 20:45:09 2009
[imud_code]
Tim@TimMUD: I know I ended up doing this though when writing the router: switch(protocol){ case 1: case 2:
Fri May 15 20:45:51 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i vaguely remember a thing with people indicating oe protocol but being formatted for another
Fri May 15 20:46:06 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: some things you just have to find in the wild
Fri May 15 20:46:55 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: theres some lib around still. forgot which one, but Crat has it in his mudfarm.
Fri May 15 20:47:22 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: ah ye olde mudfarm. i moved vpses and havent been bothered to start itup again
Fri May 15 20:47:31 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: didnt seem to be much interest in it, anyway
Fri May 15 20:47:46 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: it was quite useful for testing *wpr at the time tho :)
Fri May 15 20:48:19 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@GurbaDev1: it makes me quite confident that it will deal nicely with most clients out there..
Fri May 15 20:53:01 2009
[imud_code]
Kejope@Cookie Dough: I have a goodly collection of drivers and libs. Any idea which might have the code you seek?
Fri May 15 21:13:06 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: btw Ideysus, if interested, the irn spec is at http://mud.wotf.org/i3/irn/v1/
Fri May 15 21:21:18 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: it is actually the spec your routers already implement :)
Fri May 15 21:21:41 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: because it was written based on me trying to figure out what that code does :)
Fri May 15 21:21:56 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i'da never got around to documenting the spec
Fri May 15 21:22:35 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: mostly cuz in my mind it's less a "spec" and more "this weird thing i did this one time"
Fri May 15 21:22:38 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: I'd never have been able to write my own implementation and still communicate with the other routers without writing it first :)
Fri May 15 21:23:02 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: but note the comments at the chanlist-delta packet :)
Fri May 15 21:24:06 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: yeah im a bit of a shotgunner when it comes to code
Fri May 15 21:24:09 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: the irn mudlist synchronisation is quite sound, but the chanlist synchronisation should really be redone.
Fri May 15 21:24:55 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: and send it a few times to make sure you are heard :)
Fri May 15 21:26:20 2009
[imud_code]
Aidil@Way of the Force: but as said, the mudlist synchronisation can work really well, and is hard to improve without adding a lot of complexity.
Sat May 16 21:13:28 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Anybody familiar with {x..y} in bash (eg 'echo {1..10}')? I'm looking for the name of the feature so I can google it.
Sun May 17 18:18:40 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddev: Anybody ever come up with a way to integrate version control with an lpc mud?
Sun May 17 18:19:19 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddev: I'm trying to figure out if its worth trying something like external_start() with svn or hg
Sun May 17 18:23:26 2009
[imud_code]
Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Alecksy SVNed his mud... there's a post about it somewhere on lpmuds.net/forum
Sun May 17 18:25:41 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmuddevdev: Ah. That is interesting. It looks like it handles files individually? In a strange way that might be an advantage.
Sun May 17 18:26:13 2009
[imud_code]
Lyeith@The New Horizon: actually svn should work with proper precommit and postcommit scripts
Tue May 19 01:58:40 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Well on gossip. But I guess this is a better line. Are channel-e messages supposed to tag that on to the messages?
Tue May 19 01:59:22 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: emotes don't have the $N or whatever when we send the message
Tue May 19 01:59:59 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: the router adds it if the $N is missing
Tue May 19 02:00:12 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: I ended up prefixing [user@mud] whenever $N isn't the start of the message
Tue May 19 02:03:04 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: what about when $N is somewhere else in the message?
Tue May 19 02:05:08 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Hmm. Good question. What does the router do?
Tue May 19 02:05:51 2009
[imud_code]
Keeperofkeys@BlackDawn-Dev: $N can be anywhere in the message section of the packet i belive\
Tue May 19 02:06:16 2009
[imud_code]
Keeperofkeys@BlackDawn-Dev: but if its not listed in the message section of the packet the router will add it :)
Tue May 19 02:07:27 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i dont remember if that behavior is explicit in the spec
Tue May 19 02:07:31 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: Hmm. So I could strip the text the router adds by removing ([^(]*)$ whenever there is no $N
Tue May 19 02:07:36 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: I was going to fix it, but I lost internet access for a few months
Tue May 19 02:07:58 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: your mud. mangle incoming packets however it suits you
Tue May 19 02:13:27 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: so has anyone messed with psyc as intermud protocol?
Tue May 19 02:16:47 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: I'd never heard of that. Wikipedia says the reference version 'psyced' is LPC...
Tue May 19 02:18:04 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: although they have master objects for other lpc variants
Tue May 19 02:18:59 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: as in you advertise your psyc server with SRV records
Tue May 19 02:20:03 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: I've always wondered if xmpp would be suitable for a mud.
Tue May 19 02:20:05 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: they've also written gateways for irc and jabber
Tue May 19 02:21:00 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: like talking to jabber contacts from your mud and vice versa
Tue May 19 02:22:00 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: but they've gone with a different uri for users
Tue May 19 02:22:46 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: like psyc://eotl.org/~cozminsky for a user and psyc://eotl.org/@gossip for a channel
Tue May 19 02:23:06 2009
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i'm sure it's very nice but it sounds like a lot of work to implement
Tue May 19 02:23:34 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: I was just curious if anyone here had messed with it
Tue May 19 02:24:13 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: their aims are to do and efficient s2s protocol
Tue May 19 02:24:55 2009
[imud_code]
Cozminsky@EotL: they think that the present protocol won't scale well if people adopt jabber in a significant way
Tue May 19 02:24:58 2009
[imud_code]
Ideysus@shadowmudii: I guess jabber tends to fall down in that respect?
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