Wed Sep 27 00:37:36 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Which language lets you do "break 3;" to break out of loops 3 deep?
Wed Sep 27 00:40:56 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: It might not be called like that. Or called break. Or I might have dreamt it again...?
Wed Sep 27 00:45:58 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: PHP has (had?) a numeric break, which is a really bad idea. Perl, Java, etc have symbolic breaks, which are a good idea.
Wed Sep 27 00:46:30 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: You are better to use a symbolic goto than a numeric break.
Wed Sep 27 00:47:04 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Heh. I was thinking about this because it would eliminate my use of goto entirely...
Wed Sep 27 00:47:36 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: And when you nest your block of working code inside another block of code, it suddenly breaks.
Wed Sep 27 00:48:30 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: You do not want to port to PHP. Not even if you're using Pike, although it's a close-run thing.
Wed Sep 27 00:50:37 2006
[imud_code]
Qwer@Archipelago: you could implement commands with SQL injection
Wed Sep 27 00:51:35 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: I saw a text adventure written purely in dos batch files...
Wed Sep 27 00:54:59 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: The best text adventure, technology-wise, was L. The internals are a beauty to behold.
Wed Sep 27 00:59:50 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: When you said perl supported symbolic breaks, didn't you mean goto? :-)
Wed Sep 27 01:06:04 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Goto was the one thing that I missed in lpc. Until I heard about perl's "last"...
Wed Sep 27 01:11:28 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: heh http://redhanded.hobix.com/bits/mudIn15LinesOfRuby.html
Wed Sep 27 01:16:15 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: I looked at writing a serious mud in ruby.
Wed Sep 27 01:16:43 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: At the time I looked at it, their telnet/socket libraries where a pile of shit barely able to handle the most basic telnet options.
Wed Sep 27 01:17:07 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: I honestly doubt those libraries have improved that much.
Wed Sep 27 01:19:00 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: appart from that, it's a damn good language for writing a mud in.
Sat Sep 30 22:30:16 2006
[imud_code]
Thecreator@unlimited horizons: I've got a question. I want to put a check before any command is run. would I edit command.c? if so, where would I add the check (if statement/switch) at? I'm looking at it now, and don't see a place.
Sun Oct 1 11:16:10 2006
[imud_code]
Qwer@Archipelago: in java reflection, is there a way to obtain a class contructor using java's internal matching rules rather than having to specify exactly the constructor argument types? e.g. i want to use the function: java.lang.Class.getConstructor(type1, type2) etc but that function will not automatically widen the given types
Sun Oct 1 11:19:06 2006
[imud_code]
Qwer@Archipelago: i can muddle through with getConstructors() / isAssignableFrom(), but was looking for a way that isn't in beating dead horse territory
Sun Oct 1 11:21:37 2006
[imud_code]
Salwork@Elanathia: dont.use.javaScript.becauseItIstooComplicated.and.ConfusingLOL()
Mon Oct 2 22:25:48 2006
[imud_code]
Omega@Anarres II: In matlab, is there a way to increment a variable (as in the ++ operator from C (or +=1)) without typing the variable twice (once to read, once to write)
Mon Oct 2 22:36:23 2006
[imud_code]
Jimorie@Dead Souls Demo: Omega: To my limited knowldege, no. You need to type a = a + 1, e.g..
Mon Oct 2 22:44:12 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@Dead Souls Demo: a++ and ++a both work (but work differently)
Mon Oct 2 22:44:34 2006
[imud_code]
Jimorie@Dead Souls Demo: Maybe things have changed in recent versions of Matlab?
Mon Oct 2 22:45:04 2006
[imud_code]
Omega@Anarres II tries to find a polite way to set fire to Tacitus :-)
Mon Oct 2 22:45:08 2006
[imud_code]
Jimorie@Dead Souls Demo: That was the question yes... What are you talking about?
Mon Oct 2 22:45:20 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: i thought the question was comparing matlab to lpc
Mon Oct 2 23:11:51 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@Dead Souls Demo: I need you to help me compile something <g>
Mon Oct 2 23:13:51 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: holds his busted shin and shrieks "WHY MEEE?"
Mon Oct 2 23:15:31 2006
[imud_code]
Vlad@OtherWorldTest busts out the bactine and give Crat a good spray
Mon Oct 2 23:46:39 2006
[imud_code]
Corrik@Elanathia: is there a remote login program for linux that will alow me to use xwindows?
Mon Oct 2 23:48:40 2006
[imud_code]
Corrik@Elanathia: I havn't until recently gotten lazy enough to actually want an xwindows system on my linux box.
Thu Oct 5 16:05:23 2006
[imud_code]
Bobby@Nanvaent: is it possible to create a dynamic jagged array in c#?
Thu Oct 5 16:12:34 2006
[imud_code]
Aten@Dionea: Bobby. as far as I can tell, in c# there is nothing dynamic about jagged arrays.
Thu Oct 5 16:16:24 2006
[imud_code]
Bobby@Nanvaent: if i create an ArrayList full of arrays, would that work?
Thu Oct 5 16:17:27 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: mixed arr = ({ "haha" }); while(1) arr += ({ arr });
Thu Oct 5 16:27:26 2006
[imud_code]
Michael@Anarres II: if c# is anything like java in this respect then you can do int[][] foo = new int[5][];foo[0] = new int[5];
Thu Oct 5 16:28:38 2006
[imud_code]
Bobby@Nanvaent: but i need the first dimension to be dynamic too
Thu Oct 5 16:29:08 2006
[imud_code]
Michael@Anarres II: in java you'd use a List or System.arrayCopy, no idea what the c# analogies of those are
Thu Oct 5 16:30:45 2006
[imud_code]
Michael@Anarres II: it's probably IList, and ArrayList is probably the implementation, but I base that purely on knowing the naming conventions for c# and what you said earlier
Thu Oct 5 16:33:21 2006
[imud_code]
Qwer@Archipelago: so you could have List<List<Thing>> myThings = new List<List<Thing>>();
Thu Oct 5 16:35:33 2006
[imud_code]
Bobby@Nanvaent: what's the difference between List and ArrayList ?
Thu Oct 5 16:41:37 2006
[imud_code]
Michael@Anarres II: they didn't retrofit the generics into the existing classes in .net?
Thu Oct 5 19:36:25 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: so i have this mysql dump, which appears to be header data, cli commands and the arguments
Thu Oct 5 19:36:51 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: i'm trying to restore this db through phpmysqladm but it's choking on it for some reason
Thu Oct 5 19:37:23 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: so i decided to see copy and pasting it straight into the cli would work
Thu Oct 5 19:37:35 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: and it sure seems like it's working, which kicks ass
Thu Oct 5 19:38:01 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: except it is huge, and will take a vast amount of time finishing what it's doing
Thu Oct 5 19:38:37 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: so, is there a command to read an sql file from the cli and execute the commands therein?
Thu Oct 5 19:38:49 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: it claims there's a syntax error where really none exists
Thu Oct 5 19:39:25 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: hadnt occurred to me it would be that simple. i'd assumed it owuld be something issued from inside the cli
Thu Oct 5 19:40:13 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: mysql -u <username> -p <database name> < <dump>
Thu Oct 5 19:40:45 2006
[imud_code]
Omega@Anarres II: you're right, it takes db name on commandline, and won't read from files specified there. My bad.
Thu Oct 5 19:41:15 2006
[imud_code]
Omega@Anarres II: Funny how you can use such things all the time but not actually reproduce them when asked.
Thu Oct 5 19:42:17 2006
[imud_code]
Salius@Elanathia: is that kinda like erectile dysfunction vs masturbation
Thu Oct 5 19:43:54 2006
[imud_code]
Omega@Anarres II: Well, to make a mends: there's also the LOAD DATA command, which can either operate on the server (the mysqld reading the file directly), or via the client.
Thu Oct 5 19:44:16 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: that's pretty much what i was looking for
Thu Oct 5 19:45:54 2006
[imud_code]
Omega@Anarres II: (and, though I'm veering dangerously off-topic here, I do realise that it's amends, I just can't type)
Thu Oct 5 19:50:22 2006
[imud_code]
Llyr@Llyrland: Would anybody care about having a patch for GNU indent that can handle lpc's mappings and arrays?
Thu Oct 5 19:52:18 2006
[imud_code]
Llyr@Llyrland: I found an old one on one of indent's mailing lists for 2.2.8 that apparently didn't make it into the distribution, and hacked it into 2.2.9 (latest release). Cleaning it up right now but it works.
Thu Oct 5 19:56:36 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: You should try to get it into the distribution
Thu Oct 5 19:59:24 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: have a conversation with yourself on the mailing list about how useful your patch is.
Thu Oct 5 19:59:36 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: using different email addresses of course :)
Thu Oct 5 20:02:21 2006
[imud_code]
Salius@Elanathia: howcome if( ($num - 1 > 0 ) ) { echo "<a href='test.php?num=".($num - 1)."'>Last Login</a>"; } works
Thu Oct 5 20:02:39 2006
[imud_code]
Salius@Elanathia: howcome but if( ($num-- > 0 ) ) { echo "<a href='test.php?num=".($num--)."'>Last Login</a>"; } doesnt
Thu Oct 5 20:03:28 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@Axentia: Because $num is used before it is subtracted by 1
Thu Oct 5 22:34:46 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: Salius: http://blog.predius.org/2006/10/05/fucks-per-source-package-and-license
Thu Oct 5 22:38:58 2006
[imud_code]
Hercules@OuterSpace: By Perl it isn't the people writing the code that do the swearing, it's the people that have to read it
Thu Oct 5 23:18:27 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: It's a bison-a-like with an AST builder, but it has a mechanism to specify the translation between the S-R parse tree and the actual produced AST.
Thu Oct 5 23:19:21 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: And I'm just trying to put this together in my head... Most systems which have automatic parse tree generation will... build the S-R tree, which is wrong, yes? So the CST->AST transformation is just the equivalent of the normal rules one would write in bison (assuming one doesn't make a mess with trying to typecheck in the parser). Right?
Thu Oct 5 23:21:46 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: Any opinions? There's no documentation, and I keep sleeping on it in the hope that it all makes sense in my head.
Thu Oct 5 23:23:36 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: It's a phenomenal product, but has no documentation at all.
Thu Oct 5 23:24:00 2006
[imud_code]
Thecreator@unlimited horizons: there are lots of those out there.
Thu Oct 5 23:24:32 2006
[imud_code]
Thecreator@unlimited horizons: I can dl it, and check it... running on linux, I'm hoping?
Thu Oct 5 23:24:52 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: You will need java 1.5 for sablecc 3.2, it uses generics and annotations.
Thu Oct 5 23:25:30 2006
[imud_code]
Thecreator@unlimited horizons: ah... I haven't downloaded that yet... didn't wanna play with java on linux... my reader and windows fight over control of jvm bad enough as it is.
Thu Oct 5 23:26:05 2006
[imud_code]
Zac@StarMUD: Arren: Yes, that's what it looks like to me, the CST->AST transformation is automatically writing the bison rules
Thu Oct 5 23:28:35 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: The bit I didn't understand is what namespace some of these tokens are in, e.g. {-> New foo.bar(baz.qux)} - foo is an AST rule, not a CST rule, bar is the subrule/production. baz is a token or sub-production of this CST rule. I _think_ qux is a selector for which of multiple AST productions of baz to use....
Thu Oct 5 23:29:57 2006
[imud_code]
Zac@StarMUD: looks to me from the example in http://sablecc.org/documentation/cst-to-ast.html that baz is a sub-production
Thu Oct 5 23:30:58 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: In the isoc example, look at init_declarator... I'm not actually sure that it isn't a bean-like field reference.
Thu Oct 5 23:32:40 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: The trouble is that the examples reuse tokens so much that it's hard to guess which namespace is being referred to at any point.
Thu Oct 5 23:32:54 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: So I was looking through that for 'rare' tokens.
Thu Oct 5 23:34:08 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: expression.long_list isn't a sub-production, it's a field of PExpression as far as I can see
Thu Oct 5 23:35:19 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: I _think_ PExpression has two instance variables... and that ... the list of arguments in the {} is actually fields in the production object.
Thu Oct 5 23:35:41 2006
[imud_code]
Zac@StarMUD: You're right .. look at 6.5.17 in the grammar, the [long_list]: selector in the expression production
Thu Oct 5 23:36:53 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: I think the key might be to read the generated code, and find out whether we get a class for each node of the AST or the CST, and what the fields are.
Thu Oct 5 23:37:50 2006
[imud_code]
Zac@StarMUD: I think the [long_list]: syntax is what's directly assigning to a field
Thu Oct 5 23:38:52 2006
[imud_code]
Hercules@OuterSpace: In response to your first remark, what one does in Bison doesn't necessarilly result in an AST. You can do that, but you'd have to build it yourself. It seems that the idea of Sablecc is more of of an IP approach, where you specify what you want done instead of how you want it done.
Thu Oct 5 23:39:18 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: But the idea is that it does the same as you would do in bison if you were doing that.
Thu Oct 5 23:41:16 2006
[imud_code]
Zac@StarMUD: Arren: I think I need to sleep on this too, the identifier reuse is mind-bending.
Thu Oct 5 23:43:02 2006
[imud_code]
Hercules@OuterSpace: Well, I don't know Sablecc, and I don't intend to delve into it right now, but it seems that you could do in Bison what you'd do in Sablecc, but just a lot easier, because it does the actual translation for you, and it provides you with methods of traversing the generated AST (according to the introduction)
Thu Oct 5 23:44:49 2006
[imud_code]
Hercules@OuterSpace: also, Bison doesn't provide you with type information, which Sablecc in theory could do
Thu Oct 5 23:45:46 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: sablecc is strict typed throughout, all nodes are typed, all containers are templated
Thu Oct 5 23:46:02 2006
[imud_code]
Hercules@OuterSpace: I have actually thought about something like this before, and I've always thought bison and similar parser generators are needlessly making life hard
Thu Oct 5 23:46:44 2006
[imud_code]
Hercules@OuterSpace: (but I guess I've thought the same thing about most programming languages)
Thu Oct 5 23:50:30 2006
[imud_code]
Hercules@OuterSpace: Well, like Sablecc appears to do it (though they must have spent more time into this than I have). All you should really need to have to tell it is what the language looks like. So you'd be defining the grammar and the lhs would be the type. The rest the parser generator could figure out.
Thu Oct 5 23:51:10 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: Hercules, look at http://nat.truemesh.com/archives/000531.html
Thu Oct 5 23:53:53 2006
[imud_code]
Zac@StarMUD: Reading that truemesh article now ... I'm definitely going to have to try sablecc out
Thu Oct 5 23:56:34 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: I've built a project shell with ant and all the tools.
Fri Oct 6 00:00:06 2006
[imud_code]
Hercules@OuterSpace: Ok, read that page. It seems interesting, but I don't see why you can't begin by specifying the AST in the first place, why you have to go through that transformation step
Fri Oct 6 00:00:48 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: I think you have to specify two things: First, how the LALR shift-reduce mechanism is going to operate, e.g. left and right recursion, etc. Then you have to specify what form of AST you want this built into.
Fri Oct 6 00:01:22 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: A S-R parser can only be recursive, so it can't generate List<Expression> children;, it can only generate Expression { SubExpresssion self; Expression next; }
Fri Oct 6 00:04:42 2006
[imud_code]
Hercules@OuterSpace: Why would such a system have to limit itself to recursive parsers?
Fri Oct 6 00:05:40 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: Were you proposing originally that it should be possible to build the LALR rules from the AST?
Fri Oct 6 00:06:51 2006
[imud_code]
Hercules@OuterSpace: I want a system that you give a description of the language as you would see it in an AST, and the system produces the parser that generates the AST. I don't care whether it uses LALR or some recursive parser or whatever
Fri Oct 6 00:07:23 2006
[imud_code]
Hercules@OuterSpace: In Sablecc you're still imposing structure upon the parser that isn't present in the problem you're trying to solve
Fri Oct 6 00:07:55 2006
[imud_code]
Hercules@OuterSpace: even though it's a big step forwards from bison etc
Fri Oct 6 00:35:48 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: i thought i had made so much progress today
Fri Oct 6 00:36:08 2006
[imud_code]
Tigwyk@LP Heroes: you haven't? Aren't you always making progress?
Fri Oct 6 00:36:44 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: using this funky weird little forum software, with its own way of storing things in mysql
Fri Oct 6 00:37:14 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: and i want to see about moving onto some other kind of software
Fri Oct 6 00:38:05 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: so i educate myself on mysql a bit, set up sample databases from various forum softwares, and extract dumps
Fri Oct 6 00:38:59 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: converting will involve parsing a bunch of data and translating it from one format to another
Fri Oct 6 00:39:37 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: but i have zero experience in doing such things on this scale. it's one thing to do it for 20KB files in lpc
Fri Oct 6 00:39:59 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: but this is industrial strength translation. so, my question
Fri Oct 6 00:40:38 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: what should i use for this job? what tool is up for this sort of thing, yet is still accessible to a complete noob?
Fri Oct 6 00:42:26 2006
[imud_code]
Tigwyk@LP Heroes: Is there a tool from phpBB for switching from the other forum software? Phpbb has a bunch of "translation" tools from different types of forum software.
Fri Oct 6 00:42:48 2006
[imud_code]
Tigwyk@LP Heroes: Check their main download page, there's a link or info on there somewhere.
Fri Oct 6 00:43:45 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: poked through their translation scripts page
Fri Oct 6 00:44:39 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: havent found any scripts for porting beehive to anything
Fri Oct 6 00:44:51 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: otherwise i'd've tried a multi-step translation
Fri Oct 6 01:20:41 2006
[imud_code]
Akiinobu@Akiinobu's Dream: Crat? Is the problem too big of a file to parse or differing table names, types etc?
Fri Oct 6 01:21:07 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: it's a problem of having to know what i'm doing
Fri Oct 6 01:21:33 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: but the tables have very different elements
Fri Oct 6 01:21:57 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: which i could make a nasty hack for in lpc cuz i know it well
Fri Oct 6 01:22:11 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: but which probably really call for a proper scripting language
Fri Oct 6 01:22:19 2006
[imud_code]
Akiinobu@Akiinobu's Dream: http://www.databasejournal.com/features/mysql/article.php/10897_3550146_1
Fri Oct 6 01:24:10 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: I thought databases were supposed to chew IO time. My database server is chewing CPU, can anyone help me work out why please?
Fri Oct 6 01:24:49 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: thanks akiinobu...this is probably a very good starting point
Fri Oct 6 01:35:34 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: It's doing almost no IO, but chewing 99% of a CPU
Fri Oct 6 01:40:59 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: Does it always chew 99% of CPU or just right now as a fluke?
Fri Oct 6 01:58:25 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: I think I'm inserting a lot of data, but log_statement = 'all' isn't showing the inserts from my application, only those from my psql client. Why is that?
Fri Oct 6 02:01:04 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: I think it logs the prepares, not the executes.
Fri Oct 6 02:02:55 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: In theory, it should log EXECUTE [handle], right?
Fri Oct 6 02:03:33 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: In theory, it should log all statements. If it isn't maybe they aren't being executed for some reason?
Fri Oct 6 02:03:57 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: I've set log_statement = all in postgresql.conf, show log_statement is 'all', but I don't see inserts in the log, and I can see that new rows are being inserted.
Fri Oct 6 02:15:01 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: Does blah get created and 1 assigned to it each time the function is called?
Fri Oct 6 02:16:23 2006
[imud_code]
Tricky@Rock the Halo: Any variables defined within a function are local only to that instance.
Fri Oct 6 02:16:25 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Can the driver optimise this: void fubar() { mapping blah=([ 1:1, ... ]); /*I don't modify blah*/ }
Fri Oct 6 02:17:11 2006
[imud_code]
Tricky@Rock the Halo: Actually you have modified blah because you have assigned a value to it
Fri Oct 6 02:17:58 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: I have initialised it. But it is never modified after initialising. I was wondering if the driver is clever enough to just give me a reference in subsequent calls.
Fri Oct 6 02:19:36 2006
[imud_code]
Tricky@Rock the Halo: Err... No. Each new call to the function will create a *new* instance because it is local.
Fri Oct 6 02:20:04 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Like... perhaps x=read_only(my_mapping_or_array)... then attempts to assign using x would error...
Fri Oct 6 02:20:10 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: No. I can't think offhand of a system which will do that.
Fri Oct 6 02:20:38 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: A really good C compiler, perhaps, if it can solve the aliasing problem, and manages to mark the f_aggregate() function sufficiently pure.
Fri Oct 6 02:22:39 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: I want read only mappings now. Somebody code me a driver.
Fri Oct 6 02:23:30 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: I can pass them around without worrying things will error.
Fri Oct 6 02:23:44 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: They aren't read only, just the references to them can be...
Fri Oct 6 02:24:00 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: *without worrying things will modify the contents...
Fri Oct 6 02:24:44 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Like, my terminal code could pass a reference to the ansi mapping without somebody changing the values in it and messing up everybodies terminals...
Fri Oct 6 02:25:14 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: The terminal daemon would maintain a proper reference but it would only pass out refs that have been through read_only()
Fri Oct 6 02:25:22 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: it lets you send the value of a mapping rather than the pointer to it
Fri Oct 6 02:29:43 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: All you have to do is add an empty mapping to the mapping when you return it
Fri Oct 6 02:30:12 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: ex: mapping blah() { mapping moo = ([ ... ]); return moo + ([]);
Fri Oct 6 02:30:30 2006
[imud_code]
Tricky@Rock the Halo: You would possibly want deep_copy() though
Fri Oct 6 02:31:06 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: Thats all that copy is doing, or assigning it to another mapping and returning it
Fri Oct 6 02:31:36 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Now I'd have thought perhaps moo+([]) would be optimised out.
Fri Oct 6 02:31:38 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: It's not the same as the copy efun, and it's a lot less efficient.
Fri Oct 6 02:32:06 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: looks like theres a mudos efun as well actually
Fri Oct 6 02:32:20 2006
[imud_code]
Arren@Anarres II: no, ([]) is compiled as f_aggregate 0, and the + operator isn't typechecked, so it can't do elimination
Fri Oct 6 02:32:46 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: there goes arren again with the smarty talk
Fri Oct 6 02:33:08 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: I love listening to Arren, you always learn something
Fri Oct 6 02:33:30 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: your circuit's dead, there's something wrong
Fri Oct 6 02:34:21 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: I'd fly across the country just to meet Arren
Fri Oct 6 02:34:57 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: There ain't no mountain high enough, ain't no river wide enough, ain't no valley low enough to keep me from gettin' you to you babe
Fri Oct 6 02:36:45 2006
[imud_code]
Tricky@Rock the Halo is glad there is a large stretch of water separating us from the ex-colonials... they're just plain weird.
Fri Oct 6 02:46:00 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Using dump_prog it looks like even if I do something like ideval mixed x=([1:1, 1:1, 1:1]); and don't do anything with the value it still pushes the data and makes the mapping. And it pushes each element even though they are the same.
Fri Oct 6 02:53:43 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: my wikipedia entry in fact says "Mostly useless."
Fri Oct 6 16:09:26 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Why is every other match with reg_assoc a no match?
Fri Oct 6 16:10:24 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: As an example: ideval return reg_assoc("aaa", ({"a"}), ({"a"}) )
Fri Oct 6 16:14:05 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Well, what the doc says I should: ({"", "a", "", "a", "", "a", ""}) and ({0, "a", 0, "a", 0, "a", 0})
Fri Oct 6 16:14:23 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: I don't understand why it works like that. The no-match thing.
Fri Oct 6 16:15:01 2006
[imud_code]
Qwer@Archipelago: the no-match is where it gives you back the characters that didn't match
Fri Oct 6 16:15:50 2006
[imud_code]
Qwer@Archipelago: i.e. the "" before and after each "a" in your input string
Fri Oct 6 16:16:40 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Oh. I didn't think of writing it with data that didn't match anything. Thanks. :-)
Fri Oct 6 19:35:11 2006
[imud_code]
Tigwyk@LP Heroes: Nice to know people are liking the skill delay code.
Fri Oct 6 19:44:11 2006
[imud_code]
Ptah@Ancient Rome: it forces the player to incur a time cost as well as a potential stp or sp cost.
Fri Oct 6 19:45:01 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: unknown concepts to me, probably worth investigating :)
Fri Oct 6 19:45:03 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: there's this thing that claims to be the fluffos driver but in fact it's the dw lib. anyone know where i can score fluffos?
Fri Oct 6 19:45:13 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: Lemme put it this way, Silbago. If you were to eat a cookie, which takes 10 seconds, and you were to drink milk, which takes 5 seconds, at the same time. You'd have problems
Fri Oct 6 19:45:31 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: So the cookieeating incurs a 10s delay so that you're not eating and drinking at the same time
Fri Oct 6 19:45:49 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: yeah but those two combined doesnt have to be 15 seconds, especially if you are talking about a nasty viking, we eat fast !
Fri Oct 6 19:46:15 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: what's the url for the download? because it's in the mudmagic file that claims to be fluffos that i'm not finding it
Fri Oct 6 19:46:25 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: so you are saying that eating and drinking employs the "eating" skill, and the eating skill cant be used by two things at the same time
Fri Oct 6 19:46:44 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: http://www.mudmagic.com/codes/dl/1762/fluffos-1.22.tar.gz
Fri Oct 6 19:47:08 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: It also prevents people from ripping off a giant chain of disabling skills and just instantly neutralizing everything they face
Fri Oct 6 19:48:06 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: so if one in combat delivers a slash with weapon 1, it takes 0.3 seconds and the second sword lands at the same time, the melee.combat.slash delay will block second :)
Fri Oct 6 19:48:48 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: but i'm talking about a file i got a long time ago
Fri Oct 6 19:49:47 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: Not if the second sword uses melee.combat.slash with a "source" of 2nd-hand
Fri Oct 6 19:50:09 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: Which is why I don't use skill delays. I use action delays
Fri Oct 6 19:50:37 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: A LOT of the skill I'm running aren't actions.
Fri Oct 6 19:50:39 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: there should be serious consequenses of installing such a thing, hehe
Fri Oct 6 19:52:01 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: Swinging a longsword (while wielding a shield in the other hand) at an orc who is wielding a two-handed battleaxe, while you're on terrain of type Flat and Grassy, in the day with full sun.
Fri Oct 6 19:52:17 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: That bit right there uses 14 different skills in my MUD
Fri Oct 6 19:54:02 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: I doubled it as a safe measure. Probably not enough at this rate
Fri Oct 6 19:54:48 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: Oh, and if you're wearing armor, depending on the armor, that adds an additional 1-3 skills to the swing. :P
Fri Oct 6 19:54:56 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: maybe u should increase recursion depth too :)
Fri Oct 6 19:55:12 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: Very little in the way of recursives atm. That is, not until I get pathfinding done
Fri Oct 6 19:55:40 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: do u have a probler error logging database system that helps you track problems and whatnot so they wont stay hidden for 10 years ?
Fri Oct 6 19:57:18 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: I've got a message catching object that works as a log, plus commented out debugging bits all over most of my code. Why? ^^
Fri Oct 6 19:57:49 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: Oh, I'd like to mention that this mud probably has the best error database out there :)
Fri Oct 6 19:58:38 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: hehe, yeah, I have 80 pending at the moment. Snicker, the biggest error dump :P
Fri Oct 6 19:58:54 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: the interface is very easy to handle and has all the data regarding every warning, error and whatnot
Fri Oct 6 19:59:30 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: contains the full trace stack from the driver that dumps it, and have made sfuns to create warning. helps keeping code uptodate.
Fri Oct 6 19:59:54 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: Ive seen this on a few muds, but noone keeps one interface to all logs, and notification is not strongest at logon to tell of new problems and so forth
Fri Oct 6 20:00:02 2006
[imud_code]
Vlad@OtherWorldTest groans at the usage of the "and whatnot" phrase...
Fri Oct 6 20:00:44 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: ofcourse, I have not exactly been investigating, but checked out this and that every now and then :)
Fri Oct 6 20:03:13 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: the error system is written by morth though, some knows him
Fri Oct 6 20:40:18 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: Old discussion, is there any server-side way to make a client display certain stats around the borders of the main screen and have the main section in the middle? Or do I need a particular client
Fri Oct 6 20:42:45 2006
[imud_code]
Ptah@Ancient Rome: Im pretty sure you can only do that with a client. MXP lets you do something like that, but again, the client enables that too. I believe portal is one client that has that feature. zmud can too, but Ive never been able to get it to work.
Fri Oct 6 20:43:29 2006
[imud_code]
Llyr@Llyrland: Might want to look into vt100 control codes. Curses libraries are nice references.
Fri Oct 6 20:43:53 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: yes, depending on what terminal emulation the client has, no for things like zmud.
Fri Oct 6 20:44:37 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: it generally requires you to turn off local echo on the client though
Fri Oct 6 20:45:14 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: as the user typing something whilst you output text to a specific location on the screen will generally mess things up.
Fri Oct 6 20:45:38 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: looks like I'm going to have to write my own client, or risk having users being overwhelmed with ridiculous amounts of data
Fri Oct 6 20:45:44 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: also of interest is that some clients give you access to 256 colors.
Fri Oct 6 20:47:46 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: the only problem is that writing code which is capable of generating the same output on different terminals is a complete nightmare (feel free to read the ncurses source code)
Fri Oct 6 20:48:40 2006
[imud_code]
Ptah@Ancient Rome: zmud allows you to configure 16m colors. that clientside only.
Fri Oct 6 20:52:41 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: I don't know any client which doesn't let you remap the 16 available colours to your own choice.
Fri Oct 6 21:04:10 2006
[imud_code]
Tigwyk@LP Heroes: One nice thing about TF is that it doesn't display your password as plaintext on your console, somehow it just knows that it shouldn't display it.
Fri Oct 6 21:12:46 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: just for clarification you're talking about remapping colours clientside, you can do that in just about any client.
Fri Oct 6 21:22:13 2006
[imud_code]
Ptah@Ancient Rome: I just didnt want any confusion over what the color tags can do, for example. youre much more limited with what you can project on a users telnet screen vs what the player can manually set in their client. and the worst part of all, if you try to do something like clear screen on the telnet user, then most of the clients will hiccup. A wizard tried to code an hpbar that stayed on the bottom line of your screen. It worked fine for everyone using telnet, but my zmud freaked out and I got just a black screen.
Fri Oct 6 21:23:50 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: many zmud scripts has a hpbar coded in itself reading score on player screen :)
Fri Oct 6 21:24:02 2006
[imud_code]
Tigwyk@LP Heroes: I actually had been on a mud with a bar that stayed on the top and bottom, but you had to use telnet or it died.
Fri Oct 6 21:24:32 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: could you use cursors on command line :) ? That is the real thing
Fri Oct 6 21:26:17 2006
[imud_code]
Ptah@Ancient Rome: there is a way to get hp/sp/stp info to appear on the status bar in zmud. Ive fiddled with it several times but I could not get it to work. Perhaps it is mud dependent and the muds I play do not support it?
Fri Oct 6 21:28:07 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: if your command prompt on your player shows like this hp:371 gp:77 >
Fri Oct 6 21:28:23 2006
[imud_code]
Silbago@Final Realms: the zmud would be able to sscanf just that, parse even :) and make a popup
Fri Oct 6 21:29:45 2006
[imud_code]
Ptah@Ancient Rome: I can understand that. but what is the point in putting it 'on' zmud if you already have a prompt in your mud? I thought the point was to add an hpbar to a mud that didnt have one.
Fri Oct 6 21:31:12 2006
[imud_code]
Llyr@Llyrland: It's useful to move recurring information like stats and stuff you'd have in your prompt -out- of the normal display area and to a fixed location somewhere in the client (either a status line, or floating window, or guage somewhere in the main windows, whatever), to free up more output real estate for other things.
Fri Oct 6 21:32:30 2006
[imud_code]
Ptah@Ancient Rome: have you gotten zmud's hpbar or guages to work, Llyr?
Fri Oct 6 21:33:10 2006
[imud_code]
Llyr@Llyrland: I have in the past, but I don't currently use it.
Fri Oct 6 21:33:39 2006
[imud_code]
Ptah@Ancient Rome: Im off. movie night with my daughters. Ill probbaly be back around 10 pm EST.
Fri Oct 6 21:44:06 2006
[imud_code]
CyberTiger@Anarres II: then don't use zmud, it's a pile of shit anyway.
Fri Oct 6 22:52:04 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: Are you cloning these plots or are you using a different master object for each plot?
Fri Oct 6 22:52:51 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: Then your clones shouldn't keep track of themselves.
Fri Oct 6 22:53:21 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: Wasn't ownership I had to keep track of, was coordinates
Fri Oct 6 22:54:15 2006
[imud_code]
Tigwyk@LP Heroes: Eug man, I could so use a stock market in my mud. Wanna code? ;)
Fri Oct 6 22:54:53 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: My stock market didn't work all that well, mind. You got your world built yet?
Fri Oct 6 22:56:09 2006
[imud_code]
Tacitus@LPUniversity: Eugenides wouldn't do good with Dead Souls
Fri Oct 6 23:46:59 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: I prefer to be functional myself, as well
Sat Oct 7 00:06:50 2006
[imud_code]
Qwer@Archipelago: tinyfugue mud client supports 256 colour mode too
Sat Oct 7 00:07:35 2006
[imud_code]
Qwer@Archipelago: which i've just switched to for exactly that reason
Sat Oct 7 00:08:09 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: I've never had call to use it. Why are people so bothered about it?
Sat Oct 7 00:08:11 2006
[imud_code]
Eugenides@LPUniversity: Ugh... I may have to learn Java in order to write a client ><
Sat Oct 7 00:08:45 2006
[imud_code]
Qwer@Archipelago: i guess it's because i use colour to pick things out, and the basic 16 get overloaded quickly
Sat Oct 7 00:09:47 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Too much colour becomes just as difficult as none at all though... Although... *pokes Tacitus* make i3 lines different colours!
Sat Oct 7 00:22:01 2006
[imud_code]
Tricky@Rock the Halo: Although it really should be handled by the channel daemon.
Sat Oct 7 00:23:46 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Maybe it should be a random colour based off the channel name.
Sat Oct 7 00:25:00 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Say, add up the ascii value of each letter in the channel name and use it to index a colour...
Sat Oct 7 00:25:58 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Well maybe a proper hash function would be better.
Sat Oct 7 00:26:58 2006
[imud_code]
Kenon@Autarchy: Overridding with a custom colour would be nice but if people just randomly add i3 channels it would be nice to get the same colour by default...
Sat Oct 7 00:59:14 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: if i needed to talk to "whoever runs discworld", who would that be?
Sat Oct 7 00:59:24 2006
[imud_code]
Tigwyk@LP Heroes: Pinkfish, but he hasn't been active in years. ;)
Sat Oct 7 00:59:50 2006
[imud_code]
Tigwyk@LP Heroes: I talked to someone on here a while ago who was pretty high up.
Sat Oct 7 01:00:14 2006
[imud_code]
Qwer@Archipelago: afaik, it's not run by one person in particular, but by a group of "trustees"
Sat Oct 7 01:00:37 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: yeah i want to talk to someone with authority over the distro lib
Sat Oct 7 01:05:28 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: ive got fluffos more or less fixed and dw 9.99 more or less fixed to work with it
Sat Oct 7 01:05:52 2006
[imud_code]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: i expect to have a distributable bundle soon, so i want to know if it's ok
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