Go to the bottom | Channel Index

first << < 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 > >> last
Mon Aug 10 05:11:00 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: YAML huh?  Well, I suppose I could svn update and use the JSON parser as a model. 
Mon Aug 10 22:43:16 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaHub: you could :) 
Tue Aug 11 10:36:45 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force snores. 
Tue Aug 11 15:56:34 2009 [dgd] Frutsel@fruts: meh 
Tue Aug 11 16:00:19 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force pokes Frutsel in its ribs. 
Tue Aug 11 16:01:46 2009 [dgd] Frutsel@fruts: stop poking me. 
Tue Aug 11 16:02:01 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: oh! its alive! :) 
Tue Aug 11 16:02:53 2009 [dgd] Frutsel@fruts: yeah, and this mud in a jail too 
Tue Aug 11 16:05:17 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: mud in a jail.. 
Tue Aug 11 16:05:26 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: that sounds interesting :) 
Tue Aug 11 16:05:36 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: this one is in a jail as well.. :) 
Tue Aug 11 16:05:54 2009 [dgd] Frutsel@fruts: it's the best place to keep mud 
Fri Aug 14 14:27:47 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: heh. 
Fri Aug 14 14:28:06 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: random quote from Raudhrskal on the i3 logs page.. 
Fri Aug 14 14:28:13 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Something. 
Fri Aug 14 15:02:10 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: heh heh 
Fri Aug 14 15:02:38 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: found it very informative :) 
Fri Aug 14 15:05:34 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev grins. 
Fri Aug 14 15:12:36 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: btw, Sil, http://www.intermud.org/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=5 could mean you don't have to implement mudmode in your driver project while still being able to connect to i3. 
Fri Aug 14 17:00:15 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: ah nice you picked up the intermud.org domain. 
Fri Aug 14 17:31:19 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaHub: quite a while ago already, but finally got myself to setup some cms and stuff for it. 
Fri Aug 14 17:49:29 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: *nod* 
Sat Aug 15 04:17:03 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i cant reply on mudbytes since i'm apparently still suspended, but i advise against raid5 at home unless the  controller has cache memory 
Sat Aug 15 04:17:58 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: raid5 is dead slow without a sizable cache 
Sat Aug 15 04:18:11 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it's dead slow period 
Sat Aug 15 04:18:26 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: but without the cache it's horrifying 
Sat Aug 15 04:19:04 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: raid1 is the smart, if expensive answer 
Sat Aug 15 04:20:28 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: having said that, i bet you can score some older hardware raid solutions on ebay for cheap 
Sat Aug 15 04:39:12 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: also i remember 1995 and 40g ide was kind of unlikely 
Sat Aug 15 06:45:18 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Hrmph... too lazy to open the case, but I may have exaggerated a bit.  It's a WD400BB drive, and was probably made in 2000 or 2001.  I though it was slightly older. :) 
Sat Aug 15 06:47:43 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Apparently newer drives are built much worse than these older ones too... see my research into the "deep recovery mode" nonsense. 
Sat Aug 15 11:04:24 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: hrm. 
Sat Aug 15 11:04:55 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: using RAID 5 without a hardware raid controller with cache 
Sat Aug 15 11:06:11 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: using a 4 disk array, sustained write throughput is approx 5% below that of a single component disk. sustained read throughput is approx the same as on a 2 disk stripe. 
Sat Aug 15 11:06:33 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: I don't know what world you live in, Crat, but in my world that does not qualify as dead slow. 
Sat Aug 15 11:07:04 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: as a matter of fact, it is near identical to a 2 disk raid1 on the same hardware. 
Sat Aug 15 11:48:29 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: and, I would avoid using old hardware raid controllers unless you can get a few identical ones. 
Sat Aug 15 11:49:01 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: issue is that hardware raid controllers use special on-disk formats that tend to not be readable to anything other then the type of controller that wrote it. 
Sat Aug 15 11:49:31 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: so if your controller breaks you are out of luck, unless you can get a compatible replacement. 
Sat Aug 15 12:14:57 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: In my case, the controller is part of the motherboard.  So if it breaks I'm likely to have other problems as well. :) 
Sat Aug 15 12:17:36 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: hmm, that depends on how you look at it. 
Sat Aug 15 12:17:54 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: a random motherboard with enough sata connectors will do for you. 
Sat Aug 15 12:18:35 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: that is much much better then requiring a specific controller from a specific manufacturor that is no longer in production, and is relatively rare to begin with. 
Sat Aug 15 12:20:21 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: In this case, the main RAID system is in the south bridge chip, so I'd likely be tied to AMD chipset unless folks have a standard nowadays.  I suspect newer models would still work though. 
Sat Aug 15 12:21:25 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: if you plan to use a pseudo raid controller (if you have a mobo with a real hardware raid controller and it was below $1000, tell me about it because I never ever heard of one before). 
Sat Aug 15 12:21:46 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: most use a sortof industry standard 'container' format nowadays. 
Sat Aug 15 12:22:31 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: If I had enough cash to get 4 disks, I'd just use RAID 10 and declare victory. :) 
Sat Aug 15 12:28:43 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: the specs of that board nowhere make clear that this is a pure hardware solution. 
Sat Aug 15 12:52:34 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: all I find is that it is an AHCI compatible raid controller, but then, that is what virtually all those pseudo raid controllers are. typical complete hardware raid controllers give you a virtual scsi device instead and completely hide the underlying disk hardware and interfaces. 
Sat Aug 15 13:25:20 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: the deep recovery stuff is something most 'desktop' drives seem to do btw. 
Sat Aug 15 13:26:18 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: synology has some useful suggestions for dealing with it in a raid configuration. 
Sat Aug 15 13:27:13 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: bottomline is.. before using a disk in an array, write every sector at least once, preferably a few times. This will catch any initially bad sectors and cause sector replacements for those.  
Sat Aug 15 13:28:00 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: I'd add, add a weekly or so surface scan (with smartmontools or equivalent) to catch degrading sectors early. 
Sat Aug 15 13:29:08 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: the slight advantage of desktop disks is that you have slightly better data protection when the array is degraded. The disadvantage is a slightly higher chance on a degraded array due to timeout. 
Sat Aug 15 13:33:29 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: on modern Linux kernels, the md driver takes this into account, and won't kick a drive on a failed read. 
Sat Aug 15 13:34:18 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: instead, it will try to do a write based on data recovered from the other disk(s), and only if that fails it will kick the disk. 
Sat Aug 15 13:39:40 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: where 'modern' is at least newer then 2.6.15 
Sat Aug 15 13:42:55 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: well i've seen it be dead slow, perhaps i do live in a strange world 
Sat Aug 15 13:43:21 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i think that my point was that raid5 is not the performance selection 
Sat Aug 15 13:43:39 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and quix was apparently thinking it was 
Sat Aug 15 13:44:53 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: now maybe in your world raid5 is like awesome fast 
Sat Aug 15 13:46:28 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: but i'm sorry to say that on the three point value test of cheap/safe/fast it scores cheap/safe better than fast 
Sat Aug 15 13:46:47 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: in this world 
Sat Aug 15 13:59:23 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: fast is relative, but a 3 disk raid5 on a modern fast machine shouldn't perform much worse then a 2 disk raid1 on otherwise the same hardware. 
Sat Aug 15 14:00:05 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: and it will peform a lot worse then a raid10 setup for sure. 
Sat Aug 15 14:00:20 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: also, it will be sensitive to cpu load, unlike a raid1 setup 
Sat Aug 15 14:02:34 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: and as pointed out on the mb discussion, it scores good in cheap, but less good in safe. 
Sat Aug 15 14:12:17 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: anyway, some data, all measured on the outer edge of the disks. sustained read on a single drive, 78mb/sec. 2 disk raid0, 118mb/sec, 2 disk raid1 110mb/sec, 3 disk raid5 110mb/sec, 4 disk raid10 200mb/sec. 
Sat Aug 15 15:08:06 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: oh, raid5 write performance is highly cpu dependent, as is reading from a degraded array. Those nifty controllers that have their own cache also tend to have asics to do the ecc calculations for writing and reading a degraded array. Preferably they also use battery backed ram for their 'cache' so they can recover an unclean degraded array. 
Sat Aug 15 15:09:16 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: that all also has quite some impact on recovery times. 
Sat Aug 15 23:01:16 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaHub: connecting from my ipod 
Sat Aug 15 23:04:20 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaHub: mudding from an ipod 
Sat Aug 15 23:18:36 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: doesn't work too well :P 
Sat Aug 15 23:18:54 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: telnet app keeps crashing. ah well :) 
Sun Aug 16 01:43:36 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Depends on what you mean by "pure hardware".  I consider "pure hardware" to mean the hardware takes care of presenting the disks as a container to the OS, and that it also handles parity writes, recovery, etc.  Having it pretend an IDE drive is a SCSI drive doesn't buy you anything these days. 
Sun Aug 16 01:45:23 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I wasn't thinking RAID 5 was the fastest (that would be RAID 0, or RAID 10), but it's fastER than RAID 1 (assuming hardware parity) and safer than RAID 0, and cheaper than RAID 10. :) 
Sun Aug 16 02:03:17 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it's not normally faster than raid 1 
Sun Aug 16 02:03:29 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: raid 5 has to calculate parity for every write 
Sun Aug 16 02:03:47 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: that tends to be slower than the raid 1 bottleneck 
Sun Aug 16 02:03:54 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: which is "as fast as your slowest disk" 
Sun Aug 16 02:06:04 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: oh sry i missed the assuming hardware parity part 
Sun Aug 16 02:06:23 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: yeah it should be hella fast with hardware raid 
Sun Aug 16 08:56:24 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Well, RAID 5 looks like a weeeener.  I found a discount code for a specific model, and 3 of them fits my budget (barely).  If it ends up feeling sluggish, I guess I can always rebuild as a raid 0 and have the other drive be standalone for safety. :) 
Sun Aug 16 10:03:36 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Muahahaha... /dev/hdc - SMART Power-On Hours 48663. 
Sun Aug 16 12:20:29 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: raid5 just to put windows on it.. :) 
Sun Aug 16 12:21:09 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: the 'goal' of that is.. use 33% more diskspace for your pagefile! 
Sun Aug 16 15:52:45 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Pagefile?  I don't need no steenking page file.... swap is counter-productive to a fast gaming machine. 
Sun Aug 16 15:53:44 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: People seem to have forgotten that virtual memory isn't required unless you actually run out of physical memory. :) 
Sun Aug 16 16:22:52 2009 [dgd] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: doesn't everyone have 16 gigs of ram these days? 
Sun Aug 16 16:23:08 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Do I count? 
Sun Aug 16 16:23:21 2009 [dgd] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: don't you still run a P-II? 
Sun Aug 16 16:23:29 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: I never had a P-II. 
Sun Aug 16 16:23:42 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i dont! 
Sun Aug 16 16:23:45 2009 [dgd] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: 486DX2/66? 
Sun Aug 16 16:24:06 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: That one has 12MB. 
Sun Aug 16 16:24:21 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Er, 16. After so many years I can't get used to the upgrade. 
Sun Aug 16 16:24:45 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: anyway, i'm still capped at 512MB. 
Sun Aug 16 16:25:02 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Going to bump it to 1536 or 2048, but hadn't yet. 
Sun Aug 16 16:26:11 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: But if "everybody" has 16g nowadays, I expect to get my free upgrade kit soon? 
Sun Aug 16 16:26:36 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: My firewall: cpu0: Intel Pentium II (Klamath) ("GenuineIntel" 686-class, 512KB L2 cache) 266 MHz 
Sun Aug 16 16:26:52 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: and /bsd: real mem  = 66695168 (65132K) 
Sun Aug 16 16:27:17 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: running slack and iptables or something off that? 
Sun Aug 16 16:27:21 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: wait... Klamath? 
Sun Aug 16 16:27:30 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: I thought 233 and 266 were Katmai. 
Sun Aug 16 16:27:51 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: tmyk... 
Sun Aug 16 16:28:32 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Sorressan, btw, "/bsd" excludes slack from list of possibilites, imo ;) 
Sun Aug 16 16:29:02 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Heh, my server is Pentium III (Coppermine) cpu MHz         : 930.325, with 512M of RAM in it. 
Sun Aug 16 16:29:05 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: oops, didn't see that message. :p 
Sun Aug 16 16:29:45 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Yep, OpenBSD seemed like a good choice for a firewall. 
Sun Aug 16 16:30:57 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: heh, yeah. that's what I would've done if I had the time to learn ipfw 
Sun Aug 16 16:31:19 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Installed OpenBSD 3.3 on June 19th, 2003... been running most of the time since then. 
Sun Aug 16 16:33:00 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: pf is pretty straightforward, very english-like syntax (not at all like sendmail.cf). :) 
Sun Aug 16 16:33:36 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: lol. maybe I'll take a look at it at some point. it's somewhere on the todo list. 
Sun Aug 16 16:34:18 2009 [dgd] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: using BSD sould be at the TOP of your list! 
Sun Aug 16 16:34:49 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: I'm currently using gentoo or debian, so I'm not doing to bad. 
Sun Aug 16 16:35:12 2009 [dgd] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: leenoox == bad, bsd == teh goodness 
Sun Aug 16 16:38:19 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I mainly chose bsd because I didn't like ipchains much, and iptables was still kindof new at the time. 
Sun Aug 16 16:38:50 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: yeah. ipchains gives me a headache. iptables doesn't look to bad, though 
Sun Aug 16 17:00:36 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: heh. if you have a pagefile configured, windows does some funny suff (actually somewhat smart for a change also). 
Sun Aug 16 17:01:15 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: At least up to 2K, and i think XP you were FORCED to have a swap file or the system wouldn't boot. 
Sun Aug 16 17:01:28 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: It could be as small as 2 MB but it had to exist. 
Sun Aug 16 17:01:46 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: so, what fun stuff? 
Sun Aug 16 17:01:59 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: when it needs to load something (exe, dll etc), it tries to copy it to the pagefile, and then page it in from there as needed. 
Sun Aug 16 17:02:42 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: that sounds weird. 
Sun Aug 16 17:03:12 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: iirc the first origianl VM-BSD's did sth like that, every in-memory page always had a counterpart in the swap. 
Sun Aug 16 17:03:35 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: thus, size of VM wasn't mem + swap, was just the size of swap. 
Sun Aug 16 17:03:45 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: thats the idea, but it doesn't go that far iirc. 
Sun Aug 16 17:04:47 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: put differently, system ram is a cache on virtual memory which lives in a file. 
Sun Aug 16 17:05:11 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: anyways, that behavior's weird. If you launching a program you're usually going to use it. 
Sun Aug 16 17:05:16 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: thus, it has to be swapped in. 
Sun Aug 16 17:05:34 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: So... loading it to memory, and swapping out later seems to be better idea. 
Sun Aug 16 17:05:43 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: except for the fact that you often only use a fraction of the program 
Sun Aug 16 17:05:54 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: so you don't need all of it paged in usually 
Sun Aug 16 17:06:21 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: of course.. it matters a bit what kind of program you are looking at. 
Sun Aug 16 17:06:42 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: But unless the page file's structure is such you can move raw data bits from the EXE thru HDD's cache, you're actually running in a circle. 
Sun Aug 16 17:07:07 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Nope, you are not (in XP)... I have swap disabled and with 3G of RAM, it's very rare that I have any issues. 
Sun Aug 16 17:07:41 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: (disk) exe -> (mem/cpu) loaded, converted to paged representation -> (disk) swap -> (mem) page in. 
Sun Aug 16 17:08:15 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force nods. 
Sun Aug 16 17:08:33 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: bad idea when you have a gazillion small programs performing dedicated tasks. 
Sun Aug 16 17:08:55 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Well, creating a process in windows is expensive anyway. 
Sun Aug 16 17:09:04 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: possibly not such a bad idea when you tend to deal with insanely large programs that try to be everything at the same time. 
Sun Aug 16 17:09:18 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Depends. 
Sun Aug 16 17:09:29 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: indeed, it depends. 
Sun Aug 16 17:09:45 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I argued long and hard to get our sys-admin to disable swap on our linux server (at my last job), because we never came close to exhausting physical RAM, but the kernel's propensity for swapping to allow disk buffering was killing our performance. 
Sun Aug 16 17:09:48 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: F.ex, the one-huge-exe installers, have actually relatively small standard code/data sections, which should get loaded 
Sun Aug 16 17:10:06 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: and the compressed stuff as additional section which should be marked non-loadable. 
Sun Aug 16 17:10:20 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Huge "normal" apps are saw were usually adobe products. 
Sun Aug 16 17:10:31 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: then you tune the swappiness setting somewhere in /proc, Q :) 
Sun Aug 16 17:10:42 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: or MS office. 
Sun Aug 16 17:10:43 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: But even then largest was ~30MB (Flash 8, IIRC) 
Sun Aug 16 17:10:51 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: I stopped at office 2K, tyvm. 
Sun Aug 16 17:11:27 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Linux's swappiness behavior, just like the OOMkiller, are configurable. 
Sun Aug 16 17:11:42 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: It's just that the standard settings are quite brainded and totally desktop-oriented. 
Sun Aug 16 17:12:05 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: You couldn't do that back then Aidil... you'd have had to paw through the kernel source and change the right defines.  Not something any of us wanted to do to a 24/7 uptime production server. 
Sun Aug 16 17:12:28 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Er? What was that, 2.2.x? 
Sun Aug 16 17:12:57 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: This was also during the great "swap algorithm" war period. :) 
Sun Aug 16 17:13:02 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: was kinda thinking, that might not be a linux version you wanted to use for a 24/7 production server :) 
Sun Aug 16 17:13:59 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Hey, I wrote perl code to talk to postgresql.  Just because I knew more about how the OS worked than the sys-admin, didn't mean it was my job to keep it running. *grin* 
Sun Aug 16 17:14:11 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: you mean, raw? 
Sun Aug 16 17:14:17 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: w/o libpq? 
Sun Aug 16 17:14:55 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Pffff.. libpq is raw... PERL.  We use DBI (which uses DBD:pg, which probably uses libpq somewhere down there). 
Sun Aug 16 17:15:11 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: speaking of which... is libpq for Postgres Q-something, or just 'db' turned inside out? 
Sun Aug 16 17:15:19 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Bleeeh. 
Sun Aug 16 17:15:33 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: C and C++ folks have a hard time with the idea of a single universal API for *ALL* databases that just works. :) 
Sun Aug 16 17:15:49 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: "perl code talking to postgres" sounded like you had to write raw socket messages in postgres protocol. 
Sun Aug 16 17:16:03 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Whuch, btw, is documented. 
Sun Aug 16 17:16:07 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: C++ people have a hard time with the idea of a universal API 
Sun Aug 16 17:16:15 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev coughs, "mangling" 
Sun Aug 16 17:16:22 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: but so do perl people.. 
Sun Aug 16 17:16:31 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: All languages sux. 
Sun Aug 16 17:16:35 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Use BLISS. 
Sun Aug 16 17:16:42 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: there always have to be 1001 universal APIs doing almost the same thing slightly differently. 
Sun Aug 16 17:16:44 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I know, we had to get a couple of the postgres people in on our project, as we were uncovering bugs and stressing the system in ways they found mildly interesting. 
Sun Aug 16 17:17:02 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: they're recently breaking back-compat stuff in Xorg. 
Sun Aug 16 17:17:19 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Crappiness extraordinaire. 
Sun Aug 16 17:17:26 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Perl, thankfully, has DBI as the one true way to talk to anything that acts like a database.  It actually does work pretty well (unlike ODBC). 
Sun Aug 16 17:17:32 2009 [dgd] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: X is a dead technology anyway 
Sun Aug 16 17:17:56 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: ODBC made the mistake of allowing usage of the non-standard commands per driver. 
Sun Aug 16 17:18:42 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: I must be using a zombie computer then, Kal. 
Sun Aug 16 17:19:01 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: DBI does that too, but it doesn't make it so god-awful nightmarish to implement.  Of course, having native string support and flexible typing helps. 
Sun Aug 16 17:20:48 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Being able to tie a class to a query, so you can do things like "$a = new MyDB::countchickens 'white'; foreach ($a) ..." is kindof fun. 
Sun Aug 16 17:22:29 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: It's even more fun when you can add fields to the chickens and have it generate the correct "alter table" statements to make them permenant. 
Sun Aug 16 17:23:17 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: lessay that Perl's view of object orientation is a bit eccentric. 
Sun Aug 16 17:25:09 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: *chuckle* True, but it's useful, and I don't have to try and define 1001 templates and then grumble when the database table gets changed to something I didn't forsee. 
Sun Aug 16 17:25:34 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Now you're talkin' java. Honestly, not sure which one's worse. 
Sun Aug 16 17:26:41 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I've come to the conclusion that I want types that are static and enforced AFTER an object is instantiated.  But dynamic and weak until then. 
Sun Aug 16 17:37:54 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i come back from my idleness and there are like umpteen screenfuls of text 
Sun Aug 16 17:38:29 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: turn off inews then. 
Sun Aug 16 17:38:32 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i actually considered writing a layer for C++ hiding SQL 
Sun Aug 16 17:39:07 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: but i am not sure anyone would use it 
Sun Aug 16 17:39:43 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: what do you mean by static after instantiation? 
Sun Aug 16 17:40:59 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i though static typing typically refers to compile time type checking. 
Sun Aug 16 17:41:26 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I mean, once an object is created, I'd like it to have nice fixed types.  But I'd like the class definitions to be mutable in type.  So, for example, a database query might return an object that is (int, int, string) and should error if I try to put a string into the first field. 
Sun Aug 16 17:41:59 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: But I don't want to have to know the types before the object is created, as then I'm back in template hell, or have to pretend everything is a string. 
Sun Aug 16 17:42:07 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: ah that probably could be done but at the cost of some performance i guess. 
Sun Aug 16 17:42:38 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i guess for SQL the problem might be how to define the operations 
Sun Aug 16 17:42:59 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i.e. what types should a join operation take and what should it return 
Sun Aug 16 17:43:27 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: guess it could be some sort of template thingy 
Sun Aug 16 17:44:18 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: A join (or any query) would create an instace of a table object, but each field would have a fixed type once the database told you what it should be... so no changing types after the table object is instantiated. 
Sun Aug 16 17:44:42 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Of course, trying to compare two different table objects is... interesting. :) 
Sun Aug 16 17:44:44 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: how about alter? 
Sun Aug 16 17:45:10 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: to me it would be hard to check stuff statically like that 
Sun Aug 16 17:45:13 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Because of sanity constraints, you usually can't alter the type of a column unless the table is empty. 
Sun Aug 16 17:45:29 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: You typically add a new column, transform your data, and then remove the old one. 
Sun Aug 16 17:45:30 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: but you could do runtime type checking 
Sun Aug 16 17:46:28 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i guess alot of functional languages have tuple types 
Sun Aug 16 17:46:59 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i am not quite sure if you could make a C++ layer to do it. 
Sun Aug 16 17:47:08 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: but it maybe possible in someways 
Sun Aug 16 17:47:29 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Yep, but like Perl, the individual elements aren't usually hard types, and that's where you usually run into trouble down the road... when you try to store "13" and can't decide if it's an int or a string. 
Sun Aug 16 17:48:01 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: but you could maybe have something like 
Sun Aug 16 17:48:23 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: class Relation(std::vector<Type*> columnTypes) 
Sun Aug 16 17:48:55 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Oh, and regarding performance... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649 :) 
Sun Aug 16 17:49:11 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Them things are getting cheap these days. 
Sun Aug 16 17:49:33 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: yeah 
Sun Aug 16 17:49:47 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: maybe i should do it just for fun 
Sun Aug 16 17:49:48 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: more than $20 isnt cheap. 
Sun Aug 16 17:49:52 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i.e. create a C++ SQL mapping heh 
Sun Aug 16 17:49:54 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: (not that i checked what the link points to) 
Sun Aug 16 17:50:07 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: phenom II cpu 
Sun Aug 16 17:50:31 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: $20 isn't enough to visit the grocery store these days. :( 
Sun Aug 16 17:50:45 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: depends on the country 
Sun Aug 16 17:51:01 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: for china you can eat a bbq pork rice box for less than 50cents 
Sun Aug 16 17:51:23 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: I'm not even try to find a logical reason for that... but I won't buy an amd cpu ever. I have one, but only cos i've got it for free. 
Sun Aug 16 17:51:26 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: A 2 liter of Coca-cola is $1.39.  A pound of cheap ground beef is $3.  A gallon of milk is $3. 
Sun Aug 16 17:51:41 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i think someone bought me one one time 
Sun Aug 16 17:51:52 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: and she said she paid 6RMB for it 
Sun Aug 16 17:52:01 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: heh. 
Sun Aug 16 17:52:32 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: for that money you could live a week in many places, Quix. 
Sun Aug 16 17:53:04 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I can't see spending half-again the price for the Intel logo.  My current computer is a P4 and while it's not bad, it's nothing special either. :) 
Sun Aug 16 17:53:38 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Many places that aren't here... I don't even live in a big city or on the coast where it's actually considered expensive. 
Sun Aug 16 17:54:10 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: well, none of us is where you are tho :) 
Sun Aug 16 17:54:58 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: poor ppl in the US are generally quite well off 
Sun Aug 16 17:55:08 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Be thankful for that... nearly 30% unemployment right now. 
Sun Aug 16 17:55:10 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: compared to real poor ppl unfortunately :( 
Sun Aug 16 17:55:27 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: if you go out into the country side in china you meet those 
Sun Aug 16 17:55:51 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: well, I think the point is that money isn't going to tell you the full picture there.. 
Sun Aug 16 17:56:05 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: well it's lack of services for them 
Sun Aug 16 17:56:20 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: they dont even eat rice 
Sun Aug 16 17:56:31 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: sort of like the villagers in seven samurai 
Sun Aug 16 17:56:44 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: well they eat it sparingly anyhow 
Sun Aug 16 17:57:27 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: probably not much meat either. 
Sun Aug 16 17:57:42 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: havent been out there myself tho but my father has. 
Sun Aug 16 17:58:03 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: at any rate :) you tight budget computer is probably a much bigger machine then raud will have in the comming few years :) 
Sun Aug 16 17:58:20 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: If I were more poor, I'd have better services.  I'm currently in the gap where I'm out of work and thus have no health-care, but I'm not poor enough to collect welfare (unless I knock someone up and generate dependants). 
Sun Aug 16 17:58:23 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: so.. cheap is relative. 
Sun Aug 16 17:58:29 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: *nod* 
Sun Aug 16 17:58:57 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: quix that sort of sucks :( 
Sun Aug 16 17:58:59 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Of course.  I still have a roof and eat enough that I'm too fat for my own good. 
Sun Aug 16 17:59:32 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: alot of pretty well educated ppl are out of work these days tho unfortunately :( 
Sun Aug 16 17:59:45 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: So yeah, definately not poor by world standards! 
Sun Aug 16 18:00:53 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: one of the lawyers in my night class has been out of work 3 months i think. 
Sun Aug 16 18:01:24 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Oh, for those who don't feel like following that link... it's a triple-core 2.8GHz cpu that seems to overclock nicely to 3.2GHz on the stock cooler, for about  
Sun Aug 16 18:01:42 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: it looks purty neat. 
Sun Aug 16 18:01:43 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: for about $100 (tf ate a dollar sign again) 
Sun Aug 16 18:02:10 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Three cores mean a four way cpu in which one of the cores failed tests. 
Sun Aug 16 18:02:13 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Hmmmm... lawyer out of work?  *checks for the four horsemen, or plagues of locusts* 
Sun Aug 16 18:02:19 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: And I know that amd says it isn't the case. 
Sun Aug 16 18:02:33 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: yeah imagine that... :( 
Sun Aug 16 18:02:39 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: No, AMD certainly does say that's the case... they don't hide the fact. 
Sun Aug 16 18:03:13 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: In fact, they also sell dual-core CPU's that are quad-cores that failed on two of them. :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:03:17 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: i saw some art recently about "new line of three-core phenoms" that supposedly was specifically done that way. 
Sun Aug 16 18:03:27 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: i don't believe em. 
Sun Aug 16 18:03:58 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i will probably hold out til next year b4 getting a new rig 
Sun Aug 16 18:04:04 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: That said, many people can unlock the extra cores and find them stable and useable... the tests they do at the plant are a bit more rigerous than what we can easily do as end users. 
Sun Aug 16 18:04:25 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: If you can go with the crash here or there, prolly. 
Sun Aug 16 18:04:50 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I wouldn't believe them either Raud.  I know perfectly well they're shifting ALL their production lines to quad-core and selling the less perfect ones as X3 or X2 cheaper. 
Sun Aug 16 18:05:18 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: are the intel procs way pricier atm than the phenoms? 
Sun Aug 16 18:05:30 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: They're harder and harder to compare. 
Sun Aug 16 18:05:44 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: LOL, I remember Intel's FOOF bug, which made it through ALL the tests and was denied by Intel until proven by external sources. 
Sun Aug 16 18:05:47 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: the architecture below the x86 microcode it totally different. 
Sun Aug 16 18:06:03 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: foof? the one in p2, or something more recent? 
Sun Aug 16 18:06:46 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: The one in the P2.  So, that's why I don't trust Intel to be "better" just because it has a silly Intel-inside logo. 
Sun Aug 16 18:06:59 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: FOOF bug? 
Sun Aug 16 18:07:06 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Sure, as I said i'm not even going to try to find a rational reason. 
Sun Aug 16 18:07:19 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: An error in the floating point unit that caused slightly incorrect results. 
Sun Aug 16 18:07:44 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: oh yeah i remember that 
Sun Aug 16 18:07:46 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: As opposed to FDIV bug in original pentium that produced way incorrect results. 
Sun Aug 16 18:07:58 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: ah 
Sun Aug 16 18:08:10 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Yep, that too. :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:08:13 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i think the fdiv bug had something to do with a bad table 
Sun Aug 16 18:08:26 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Quix. i don't believe that intel is in any way ideal. 
Sun Aug 16 18:08:36 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: some ultra slick method of do fdivs that isnt described in my textbook :P 
Sun Aug 16 18:08:51 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: but i always have been using intel cpus, and they wewre nice to me. 
Sun Aug 16 18:09:20 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: while amd liked to crash and burn (including physically) 
Sun Aug 16 18:10:00 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: it's totally irrational, yes. But unless it'd be give to me for free or a beer, i'm not going to get amd. ever. 
Sun Aug 16 18:10:02 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i might pick up a hexacore next year sometime 
Sun Aug 16 18:10:06 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: The only bad AMD experience I had was back with the original egg-frier Athalon, and that compares to the old egg-frier Pentium 66, so I don't really hold it against them. 
Sun Aug 16 18:10:31 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: er, original athlons were slot cpus... 
Sun Aug 16 18:10:43 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: the egg frier came with the pin package. 
Sun Aug 16 18:11:02 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: granted, the slot athlons were hot too, but not as much i think. 
Sun Aug 16 18:11:43 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Other than that, I've chosen based on price vs. performance.  Pentium 4 won 5 years ago when I was last shopping, AMD won this time. 
Sun Aug 16 18:12:07 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: how is the company doing (AMD?) 
Sun Aug 16 18:12:17 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: p4 won on perf? when? they always were slow as hell when compared to the clock... 
Sun Aug 16 18:12:43 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: or you mean one of the later models which were carrying the name for marketing reasons? 
Sun Aug 16 18:13:52 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Oh, it's a P4 3.0GHz with "hyper-threading".  I think the Athalon 64 was *just* being introduced (single-core) at the time. 
Sun Aug 16 18:14:45 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: that's not a p4 ;) 
Sun Aug 16 18:15:06 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: the Evil P4's were those 20+-step pipeline willamettes. 
Sun Aug 16 18:15:31 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: this is actually more similar to the later D series, i think. 
Sun Aug 16 18:16:30 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: the 3.0 ht is prescott, i think. 
Sun Aug 16 18:16:55 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: lga socket? 
Sun Aug 16 18:17:21 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Mine is Northwood, socket 478. 
Sun Aug 16 18:17:43 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Those i don't hadve firsthand experinece with. 
Sun Aug 16 18:18:18 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: It was fast enough when I got it, but is defintely showing it's age now (speaking as a gamer). 
Sun Aug 16 18:19:16 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: I have a 3.0 ht northwood here, and a 3.2 ht prescott (ee version, so with double the cache basicly) 
Sun Aug 16 18:19:33 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I suspect the microcode in any of the newer cpu's is improved enough that a new 2.4GHz would probably stomp it easily. 
Sun Aug 16 18:19:34 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: the later is quite a bit faster then the first :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:22:13 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Hmmm, well... anyone have any particular good (or horror) stories about either recent Seagate or recent Samsung hard drives?  Sale ends today, so I'm gonna pull the trigger soon. 
Sun Aug 16 18:22:51 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: not heard a thing since the 7200.11 firmware bug. 
Sun Aug 16 18:22:54 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: I get to replace a samsung disk in my (hosted) server approx once a year :P 
Sun Aug 16 18:23:01 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: and that one was fixable. 
Sun Aug 16 18:23:17 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Tried to change power supply? Supposedly samsungs are very fragile for bad power. 
Sun Aug 16 18:23:26 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Personally, I've had good luck with Seagate and Western Digital, and bad luck with the IBM death-star (now Hitachi). 
Sun Aug 16 18:23:54 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: so far my hitachi unit is doing ok 
Sun Aug 16 18:23:59 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: well, since my provider replaces them free of charge and its their worry, thats not my thing, Raud :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:24:11 2009 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: my friend had a one overheat on him tho. 
Sun Aug 16 18:24:19 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: ah, sorry Aidil. 
Sun Aug 16 18:24:22 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: I've a mirror set with 2 spares there, so I'm fine :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:24:23 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Samsung does seem to have more "died after 3 month" reviews.... so I'm leaning away from them a bit. 
Sun Aug 16 18:24:28 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev:  have a bad habit of not looking at message originator. 
Sun Aug 16 18:24:43 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: hehe. 
Sun Aug 16 18:25:12 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I guess they also outsourced their RMA department. :( 
Sun Aug 16 18:25:16 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: in your case, that might make a good testcase for you raid setup, Quix :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:25:17 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: You have way different approach to equipment than I do... and you can afford it. 
Sun Aug 16 18:26:00 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Anyway, ich liek WD. So far at least. 
Sun Aug 16 18:26:26 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: I've a bunch of wds around as well, which I happen to like :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:26:44 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: but I think Quixadhal got scared of the deep recovery story. 
Sun Aug 16 18:27:11 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I've liked WD for general usage, but their "deep recovery" issue makes me think "deeeep hurrrrting" when involved in an array. 
Sun Aug 16 18:27:37 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: I'm not so sure they are the only ones doing that however. 
Sun Aug 16 18:28:01 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Perhaps, but they're the only ones I can find such horror stories about. 
Sun Aug 16 18:29:07 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: well, it depends on how your raid implementation deals with it. 
Sun Aug 16 18:29:11 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I'm also not keen on their attitude of not accepting warrenty returns for non "raid-class" drives that were used in an array. 
Sun Aug 16 18:30:04 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Sure, you can wave a magenet over it and lie, but I don't like vendors putting me in that position. 
Sun Aug 16 18:30:25 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: and even then, since you are not having hot spare disks around, I'm not so sure you are better of. That warranty stuff seems silly yes, but how are they going to prove it was part of an array to begin with without putting in way more efford then just replacing the disk takes? 
Sun Aug 16 18:30:44 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: from the contents? 
Sun Aug 16 18:30:58 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: which means they first have to fix it and check. 
Sun Aug 16 18:31:11 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: which is generally more expensive then just replacing the thing. 
Sun Aug 16 18:31:15 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: i don't you can demand from them to not read any data from the drive, unless you're CIA-level organization 
Sun Aug 16 18:31:33 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: *think ^ 
Sun Aug 16 18:32:50 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I agree they probably wouldn't ever know... but it's the fact they they put you in the position of having to LIE to get proper service that irks me.  I don't mind lying, I do mind being forced to do so. 
Sun Aug 16 18:32:52 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: lol deeeep huuuurting 
Sun Aug 16 18:33:03 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i think that was either manos or bride of the mosnter 
Sun Aug 16 18:33:09 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: regardless, I've had disks from about every brand fail on me, and also survive beyond reason. 
Sun Aug 16 18:33:14 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: so.. 
Sun Aug 16 18:33:21 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Plug and Pray. 
Sun Aug 16 18:33:51 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Hehehe, I was mostly thinking the general MST3k segments with TV's Frank. :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:34:20 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: yeah 
Sun Aug 16 18:34:34 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Nothing will ever be as reliable as my old Commodore 1541 floppy tank. 
Sun Aug 16 18:34:44 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: I have seen one mst3k episode in total. They're not available round here :( 
Sun Aug 16 18:34:46 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force chuckles. 
Sun Aug 16 18:34:48 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: ,8,1 
Sun Aug 16 18:34:49 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I tested it's ability to read damaged floppies :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:34:52 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: mine still works :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:35:47 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I had to cut 5 slits in the disk (all the way through) before it would fail to read... and it may well have simply gotten too far from the head at that point. 
Sun Aug 16 18:36:34 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: if you wanted you could do the decoding yourself (had to run code on the drive's cpu for that), so heh, if theres data and it can spin the disk, you can probably read it. 
Sun Aug 16 18:37:54 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I still loved the disk duplicator software that installed itself in the drive's RAM, so you could then disconnect the drive and not need the computer any more to copy disks. 
Sun Aug 16 18:38:08 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force nods. 
Sun Aug 16 18:39:49 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: but disks surviving beyond reason.. many a quarter century old c64 floppy here falls in that catagory :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:40:49 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Yep... most of my 5-1/4's still read a couple years ago when I pulled the 64 out for amusement.  The 3-1/2'ers for the Amiga didn't do quite as well, but many still worked. 
Sun Aug 16 18:41:54 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Heck, by comparison, I have CD-R's that I can no longer read. 
Sun Aug 16 18:42:27 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: I typically don't even try with cd-rs older then a few years 
Sun Aug 16 18:42:31 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: and Music CD's too, for that matter (Led Zepplin II -- sigh). 
Sun Aug 16 18:43:39 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: tho I keep a plextor cdrom drive around for cases where I do need to read old disks.. somehow it does a much better job on that then about any modern drive ZI have around, 
Sun Aug 16 18:44:13 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: s/Z// 
Sun Aug 16 18:45:05 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Heh... ^Z^ 
Sun Aug 16 18:46:05 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: at any rate.. now you are here anyway... 
Sun Aug 16 18:46:21 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Stuck in the middle with us... 
Sun Aug 16 18:46:25 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: I'm going to change the output handling in gurbalib a bit 
Sun Aug 16 18:47:36 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: ansi_d can do its ansi thing, but theres some more generic output handler going to sit in front of it :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:47:39 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines boycotts UTF-8 output mode! 
Sun Aug 16 18:48:29 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev raises a transparent stating "UNIBYTE FOREVER". 
Sun Aug 16 18:49:21 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force drops the full range of unicode characters on Quixadhal. 
Sun Aug 16 18:49:35 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Of course, if we just ditch this silly "TELNET" dinosaur, we could make output be pure JSON streams.... 
Sun Aug 16 18:49:46 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: well... 
Sun Aug 16 18:49:54 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: $%@!^$ 
Sun Aug 16 18:50:06 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: being able to make output that is exactly what I'm about to do :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:50:46 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: it could be mudmode as well, or anything else that you'd bother to implement a handler for. 
Sun Aug 16 18:50:48 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Quix, I believe that might actually be actually a valid TECO command... 
Sun Aug 16 18:50:54 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines smacks your TCP stream and inserts the UDP packet emitter 9000! 
Sun Aug 16 18:51:04 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: I'm sure its valid perl 
Sun Aug 16 18:51:06 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev . o O ( Department of Reduncancy Dept. ) 
Sun Aug 16 18:51:54 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Oh, sorry... ctrl-alt-meta-shift-C shift-ctrl-alt-meta-Z.  Gotta support emacs too. :) 
Sun Aug 16 18:54:03 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Ugh.  Shipping by FedEx is $27, nicely sucking up my discount coupon.  But hey, it's probably worth it to save a few field goal kicks, eh? 
Sun Aug 16 18:56:19 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Not necessarily. 
Sun Aug 16 18:56:42 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: If you can get that thing nearby, you will save later on warranty replacement. 
Sun Aug 16 18:56:48 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: At least time, if not money. 
Sun Aug 16 18:57:58 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I'd love to, but this is corn country.  If Best Buy doesn't stock it, it's a couple hours to drive to anything better. 
Sun Aug 16 18:58:38 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: heh. Best Buy 
Sun Aug 16 18:59:58 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: We used to have a Circuit City too, until they went out of business. *grin* 
Sun Aug 16 19:02:34 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: heh. without much efford I can come up with 8 local shops that would stock disks and stuff. 
Sun Aug 16 19:02:51 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: We DO have a little repair/parts place, but they want almost double the price newegg is asking. 
Sun Aug 16 19:02:53 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: and its not liek I live in a huge city or such :) 
Sun Aug 16 19:06:24 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: My city's population was 77K as of the 2000 census.  I would guess about 20K of that is seasonal due to the university. 
Sun Aug 16 19:07:24 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: We have a large number of bars... and a large number of churches.  The two may not be independant variables. 
Sun Aug 16 19:07:43 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: here its a bit over 100k. 
Sun Aug 16 19:07:57 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: we have a lot of those 2 as well. 
Sun Aug 16 19:08:54 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: This is the second largest city on this side of the state. :) 
Sun Aug 16 19:10:11 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: The largest being an hour north, and the capital being about 2 hours east.  To get to a real "city", it's 3 hours east to Detroit, or 4 hours south-and-west to Chicago.  But we have corn! 
Sun Aug 16 19:46:46 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: hmm. trying to watch video on an ipod nano is kinda pointless 
Sun Aug 16 19:48:07 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I watched Dr. Horrible on my DS. :) 
Sun Aug 16 19:49:07 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: I have a touch here as well, it is quite useful for watching video.. but accidentely something I downloaded on it ended up on my nano (itunes is stupid) 
Sun Aug 16 19:51:44 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: No argument there. 
Sun Aug 16 20:09:52 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force smiles. 
Sun Aug 16 21:21:08 2009 [dgd] Thingol@The Void: Phew 
Sun Aug 16 21:21:14 2009 [dgd] Thingol@The Void: Thanks Aidil 
Sun Aug 16 21:24:50 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: :) 
Sun Aug 16 21:25:32 2009 [dgd] Thingol@The Void: I downloaded http://wotf.org/downloads/gurba/gurba-0.42-beta2.tar.gz and recompiled that one. The subversion lib seems a bit off. 
Sun Aug 16 21:26:38 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: well, the subversion lib is about 100 revisions ahead of the last release archive. 
Sun Aug 16 21:26:51 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: will look into whats breaking the auto admin thingy. 
Sun Aug 16 21:32:14 2009 [dgd] Subversion@Way of the Force: Aidil committed Gurbalib revision 315 to svn://wotf.org/gurbalib : Make auto admin work again (silly typo in secure_d)  
Sun Aug 16 21:32:21 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: there we go. :) 
Sun Aug 16 21:32:27 2009 [dgd] Thingol@The Void: heh 
Sun Aug 16 21:32:48 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: o_o. how'd you make svn do that? that's awesome[ 
Sun Aug 16 21:33:04 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: post commit hook. 
Sun Aug 16 21:33:19 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: you can pass stuff to your mud? 
Sun Aug 16 21:33:41 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: there are at least three ways to do it. 
Sun Aug 16 21:33:43 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: well, by means of a file that the mud can read :) 
Sun Aug 16 21:33:46 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: passong stuff, i mean. 
Sun Aug 16 21:34:06 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: but there are other ways. 
Sun Aug 16 21:34:12 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: sockets, dial-in, and a textfile exchange. 
Sun Aug 16 21:34:14 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: ah. so the mud just polls the file? 
Sun Aug 16 21:34:19 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: I could make it do a post to the in-mud httpd :) 
Sun Aug 16 21:34:24 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Simple. Sufficient. 
Sun Aug 16 21:34:30 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Heh. 
Sun Aug 16 21:34:32 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: yeah, I guess you could make it connect and write... 
Sun Aug 16 21:34:36 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: yeah, it looks every so often. 
Sun Aug 16 21:34:43 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: nice 
Sun Aug 16 21:34:47 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Make the httpd DAV-aware anduse it to provide svn. 
Sun Aug 16 21:34:48 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: well, nothing wget can't do there :) 
Sun Aug 16 21:34:58 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: hehe. 
Sun Aug 16 21:35:01 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: just figured I'd ask, that looks kinda chill 
Sun Aug 16 21:35:13 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: there is a dav aware httpd for dgd somewhere. 
Sun Aug 16 21:35:15 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: chill? 
Sun Aug 16 21:35:24 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: while I have you here, do we have some sorta olc or something? 
Sun Aug 16 21:35:41 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: nope :) 
Sun Aug 16 21:35:46 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: o_o. 
Sun Aug 16 21:35:48 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: wanna olc, get DS 
Sun Aug 16 21:35:51 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: nothing that fancy, at least not yet. :) 
Sun Aug 16 21:35:55 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: eww. I don't want that 
Sun Aug 16 21:35:58 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: but not sure if its a fair trade 
Sun Aug 16 21:36:12 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: no. ds is way to bloated 
Sun Aug 16 21:36:26 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: "Functional" you mean. 
Sun Aug 16 21:36:29 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev grins stupidly. 
Sun Aug 16 21:36:35 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: I mean... bloated. 
Sun Aug 16 21:37:08 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev sighs. 
Sun Aug 16 21:37:13 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: So... cruel... 
Sun Aug 16 21:37:17 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: someday I'll get to make a port or reimplementation of Way of the Force's grid/mapping system, which also has an olc of sorts (more like a metadata editor) 
Sun Aug 16 21:37:32 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: but.. 
Sun Aug 16 21:37:34 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: heh. I might do it, once I learn how this stuff works more. 
Sun Aug 16 21:37:57 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1 ) 
Sun Aug 16 21:38:08 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: hmm. silly mudd eating my : 
Sun Aug 16 21:38:12 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: heh 
Sun Aug 16 21:38:36 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: where does the manpages go for this lib? I have sprintf.doc that I need to put in the manpages dir 
Sun Aug 16 21:39:23 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: guess you want to put it in doc/afun/ 
Sun Aug 16 21:39:34 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: werd. thanks. I thought it was it's own directory 
Sun Aug 16 21:43:34 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: aidil: do you allow people to commit to the repo? 
Sun Aug 16 21:44:41 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: depends :) there are a few other committers besides me, but generally, send patches to gurba at wotf.org 
Sun Aug 16 21:45:42 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: ok. I'm not quite sure how I'd patch. I will send stuff in, new stuff as I write it that might help, just not sure how I'd make a patch for you. 
Sun Aug 16 21:46:13 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: diff -u copy-of-original-file.c your-modified-file.c > patch.diff 
Sun Aug 16 21:46:31 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: if its changes to existing files, svn can do the job for you :) 
Sun Aug 16 21:46:42 2009 [dgd] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Or is it new before old? I never remember. 
Sun Aug 16 21:46:43 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: urm. I modify the file that needs fixing or I'd do that. 
Sun Aug 16 21:47:01 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: svn diff path/to/file >patchfile 
Sun Aug 16 21:47:42 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: werd, thanks 
Sun Aug 16 21:47:44 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: will create a patch of your changes against the revision you checked out last. 
Sun Aug 16 21:47:55 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon nods 
Sun Aug 16 22:05:47 2009 [dgd] Aidil@GurbaDev1: oh, Thingol, Dworkin just told me next dgd version will fix the cygwin compile issue. 
Sun Aug 16 22:20:29 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: first patch headed in 
Sun Aug 16 22:34:48 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: :) 
Sun Aug 16 22:34:59 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: will look at it tomorrow tho, time for me to go catch some sleep. 
Sun Aug 16 22:35:09 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: werd. it's nothing huge. peace 
Mon Aug 17 04:40:42 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Hehehe... "bloated" eh?  Maybe it's time for Dead Souls to fork a new "Foundation" branch. :) 
Mon Aug 17 04:41:22 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Oh, and for the record... I hate hard drive manufacturers.  They're not just greedy, they're also stupid. 
Mon Aug 17 04:41:45 2009 [dgd] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: yeah! how dare they fit 2 TB onto a 3.5 platter! 
Mon Aug 17 04:42:13 2009 [dgd] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: the gall! 
Mon Aug 17 04:42:20 2009 [dgd] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: the sheer, unmitigated gall! 
Mon Aug 17 04:42:32 2009 [dgd] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: get a rope. 
Mon Aug 17 04:43:03 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: How dare they cripple their own product by forcibly setting the drive's firmware to "accoustic quiet" mode, and not allowing the end-user to adjust it? 
Mon Aug 17 04:43:30 2009 [dgd] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: i can adjust that... it's in my bios 
Mon Aug 17 04:43:46 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Seagate's new series (7200.12) does that... yielding a 20ms seek time on a drive which SHOULD beat the pants off the competition. 
Mon Aug 17 04:45:11 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Just read this gem.... http://techreport.com/articles.x/16472/1 
Mon Aug 17 04:46:41 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Their brand new drive not only performs worse than the model it replaces, but the economy WD 640 SE (two years old) beats it in everything except raw sustained transfer speeds.  Yet the recording density is almost twice as high, so it SHOULD do much better. 
Mon Aug 17 04:47:43 2009 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: just how fast does your pron need to go? 
Mon Aug 17 04:47:46 2009 [dgd] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: someone's bitter 
Mon Aug 17 04:47:51 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I don't know what these guys think about when sitting in meetings.  If it were a "green" drive to put in home theater systems, sure... good idea.  But it's billed as a performance drive, and it... doesn't perform well. :) 
Mon Aug 17 04:48:42 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Nah, I'd be bitter if I'd clicked the "buy" button and THEN read the review.... now I'm just annoyed since I have to do more research before I spend my sheckles. 
Mon Aug 17 04:50:46 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Hi Crat.  The pron just needs a faster network connection, no point in storing it to the disk at all. 
Mon Aug 17 04:54:45 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Hey Crat... when's Foundation III: The Dieting going to be released? *grin* 
Mon Aug 17 04:57:12 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I figured Dead Souls 2: Floating and Bloated seems to be doing well.  Don't mind the folks above though, they just don't understand that it's not fat, it's big boned. 
Mon Aug 17 06:36:10 2009 [dgd] Quixadhal@Bloodlines has slain another channel, woot! 
Mon Aug 17 06:59:05 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force puts his fingers to his lips and goes: blblblblblblblblblbl. 
Mon Aug 17 13:38:34 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force snores. 
Mon Aug 17 15:24:46 2009 [dgd] Subversion@Way of the Force: Aidil committed revision 43 to svn://wotf.org/dgd-devel-net : Imported dgd 1.3.5 from vendor branch  
Mon Aug 17 15:33:11 2009 [dgd] Subversion@Way of the Force: Aidil committed Gurbalib revision 316 to svn://wotf.org/gurbalib : Imported dgd 1.3.5 from vendor branch  
Mon Aug 17 16:21:58 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: btw, Thingol, both the privileges issue and the cygwin compile issue should be solved in the latest svn version 
Mon Aug 17 16:22:17 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: yay, updates. 
Mon Aug 17 16:22:41 2009 [dgd] Sorressean@Falcon: did that just cover cygwin compilations? don't see a reboot command, wasn't sure if it was worth the reboot. you get my patch, btw? 
Mon Aug 17 16:23:31 2009 [dgd] Aidil@Way of the Force: last update just covers compiling dgd with cygwin. 
first << < 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 > >> last

Go to the top | Channel Index