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Thu Nov 22 16:56:51 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF smiles. 
Thu Nov 22 16:57:49 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Test: test? 
Thu Nov 22 16:58:01 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF jumps up and down cheering. 
Thu Nov 22 17:12:26 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF ponders the situation. 
Thu Nov 22 17:12:38 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Test: another test? 
Thu Nov 22 17:12:48 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF grins. 
Fri Nov 23 00:36:16 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Quack? 
Fri Nov 23 00:36:32 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF barks like a dog. 
Fri Nov 23 00:36:32 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Heh =)  
Fri Nov 23 00:36:54 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I didn't even need to set it up. It still had the channel from yatmim 
Fri Nov 23 00:36:58 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Er, gjs 
Fri Nov 23 00:37:10 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: haha, nice. 
Fri Nov 23 00:37:38 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I just noticed it'd joined the channel in the logs so hey presto, instant working 
Fri Nov 23 00:38:25 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Ah well, now to get other people to convert huh? ;) 
Fri Nov 23 00:39:10 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh. development version of dgd pretty much needs an external program to connect to i3. 
Fri Nov 23 00:39:36 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Hmm I have DGD1.2p4 right now I think. It's the last version I compiled and patched/edited 
Fri Nov 23 00:39:58 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: there is someone else out there doing things with dgd (Silenus), and think Yeik is also fiddling with it if I'm not mistaken. 
Fri Nov 23 00:40:02 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF nods. 
Fri Nov 23 00:40:12 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Iwonder if my IMC daemon is working.. 
Fri Nov 23 00:40:28 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: thats the latest 'non development' version, and the latest on which the network package seems to work well. 
Fri Nov 23 00:40:48 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: and also what I use. 
Fri Nov 23 00:40:50 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I think I had the network package working on some of the development versions but I stuck with 1.2p4 anyway 
Fri Nov 23 00:41:13 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: If it ain't broke, don't fix it kinda thing.  
Fri Nov 23 00:41:21 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: I have a somewhat working 1.2.109 with network package, but its unstable. 
Fri Nov 23 00:41:49 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: As I remember I've never crashed this MUD under 1.2p4 
Fri Nov 23 00:42:33 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: 1.2p4 is fine in itself, you lack some interesting features (lightweight objects, compiling objects from strings and arrays of strings, and being able to preprocess includes in lpc mostly. 
Fri Nov 23 00:42:41 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: oh, thats easy :) 
Fri Nov 23 00:42:51 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Easy if you're trying. 
Fri Nov 23 00:42:53 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: try to listen on a port thats in use by some other program. 
Fri Nov 23 00:42:59 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I've never done it as a whoopsie. 
Fri Nov 23 00:43:05 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF nods. 
Fri Nov 23 00:43:27 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Well Ive never tried, so I've never done it full stop ;) 
Fri Nov 23 00:43:33 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD quacks. 
Fri Nov 23 00:43:39 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD beams. 
Fri Nov 23 00:43:39 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh. 
Fri Nov 23 00:44:03 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Jolly good, emoting seems to still work 
Fri Nov 23 00:44:11 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: I'm approaching one year uptime now, so heh, its pretty stable. 
Fri Nov 23 00:44:29 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Yeah I used to do that kinda thing. 
Fri Nov 23 00:45:27 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: what state is your lib in? lib development? or got something of a game also? 
Fri Nov 23 00:45:53 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: It could probably sustain a mediocre complexity game but it's full of holes really 
Fri Nov 23 00:47:38 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: I see.. I'm running a game tho mostly for testing lib stuff and filling the holes. 
Fri Nov 23 00:47:48 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD grins. 
Fri Nov 23 00:48:04 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Well, basically does anyone have a production quality DGD MUD nowadays? 
Fri Nov 23 00:48:36 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: yes, there is some german mud running on dgd (forgot the name) and well, Skotos. 
Fri Nov 23 00:48:52 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Meh, skotos doesn't count. 
Fri Nov 23 00:49:20 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh 
Fri Nov 23 00:49:32 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: But what you're saying is there is basically only one ? :p 
Fri Nov 23 00:49:42 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: one that I know of. 
Fri Nov 23 00:49:56 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: And for that one, one must auf Deutsch sprechen ? 
Fri Nov 23 00:50:08 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF chuckles. 
Fri Nov 23 00:50:36 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: not too much of a prob for me, my girlfriend happens to be German.. but heh. 
Fri Nov 23 00:51:00 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I had a german girlfriend 
Fri Nov 23 00:51:22 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD:  Interesting mindset sometimes. 
Fri Nov 23 00:51:58 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: But I'm with a chinese girl now, so I'm more trying to get myself to learn mandarin and failing miserably 
Fri Nov 23 00:53:45 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: wrt game functionality I can run something that looks and feels like a classic lpmud, and is very similar to a traditional lpmud 3.1.2 when writing code for it, but with persistence and many of the other niceties dgd has. 
Fri Nov 23 00:53:59 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh.. I had a friend trying that.. 
Fri Nov 23 00:54:09 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: he somewhat managed.. but now his girl is gone :P 
Fri Nov 23 00:54:11 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: What, Mandarin? It's ok, bitch to speak though. 
Fri Nov 23 00:54:33 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Well it's been erm, 2 years, 2 months now with this one so.. 
Fri Nov 23 00:54:47 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: my girlfriend is half spanish half german, makes for a very interesting mix :P 
Fri Nov 23 00:54:53 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I seem to get around in terms of nationality really. 
Fri Nov 23 00:55:15 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: English, German, Venezuelan, Chinese. 
Fri Nov 23 00:55:17 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Italian, Russian.. 
Fri Nov 23 00:55:51 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: There were actually two germans but one didn't last very long... she was just the sheer embodiment of insanity. 
Fri Nov 23 00:56:01 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF laughs. 
Fri Nov 23 00:56:15 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: that sounds bad :P 
Fri Nov 23 00:56:23 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: But for sheer imcomphrensibility, it had to be the scottish girl 
Fri Nov 23 00:56:54 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I literally had no idea what any of her voice mail messages said cause her accent + the crappy quality = nonsensical. 
Fri Nov 23 00:57:48 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: It was ok in person if you were listening properly though :p 
Fri Nov 23 00:58:38 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh. I have a friend from Yorkshire.. kinda know the prob :P 
Fri Nov 23 00:58:50 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: When I think about it though, the diversity of nationality is probably something to do with the fact that english girls are a pain in the arse. 
Fri Nov 23 00:59:04 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF chuckles. 
Fri Nov 23 00:59:20 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Yorkshire isn't a thick accent man. 
Fri Nov 23 00:59:34 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Well, I suppose if you get it thick it's as bad as my own local lancashire can get. 
Fri Nov 23 00:59:42 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: its pretty much incomprehensible to a non native speaker :P 
Fri Nov 23 00:59:56 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Cause that reaches levels where most people go "**blinkblink** Are you even speaking english? 
Fri Nov 23 01:00:22 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: To which the honest answer is 'probably not' 
Fri Nov 23 01:00:30 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: its more like.. I should understand this... it kinda sounds like English but eh.. wtf? 
Fri Nov 23 01:00:34 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: It may have been english 300 years ago. 
Fri Nov 23 01:01:26 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Well "As thih e'er sin a sow lep o'er a gat?" tends to come out a bit oddly for non natives yes 
Fri Nov 23 01:01:46 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: I recall being at her wedding together with my girlfriend.. she basicly couldn't follow most of what was being said there :P 
Fri Nov 23 01:02:00 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Stupid example, doubt anyone'd say that nowadays but hey, it's one of my favourites when detailing the deep accent to foreigners. 
Fri Nov 23 01:02:20 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF grins. 
Fri Nov 23 01:04:31 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Probably the funnest example I ever heard though was one my dad told me from when he was a kid at school... They had a new teacher who'd come from down south and spoke queen's english... And she was looking for the trash can... and as she's wondering around she saw the headmaster who was a local lad and went "Where's the bin" and he promptly glared at her and went "ahs bin t'piss stone, wot's it t'you? 
Fri Nov 23 01:06:03 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF laughs. 
Fri Nov 23 01:06:37 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: The joys of accents huh? 
Fri Nov 23 01:07:11 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh, we have some of that overhere as well (Netherlands).. 
Fri Nov 23 01:07:31 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD:  I imagine most countries do 
Fri Nov 23 01:07:59 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I really think china is probably one of the worst for it though, where the same sound can mean 4 different things totally on the tone. 
Fri Nov 23 01:08:25 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: esp the deep southern (and Belgian) accents and dialects can provoke some funny responses in the north. 
Fri Nov 23 01:09:03 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Well I don't really speak dutch so I wouldn't know :p I half understand it but not really. 
Fri Nov 23 01:09:11 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I only officially speak English, German and Frenh 
Fri Nov 23 01:09:15 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: *french 
Fri Nov 23 01:09:17 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF nods. 
Fri Nov 23 01:09:53 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Ah french, why did I ever learn french.. 
Fri Nov 23 01:10:17 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: with that you should be able to make an educated guess at dutch tho. 
Fri Nov 23 01:10:31 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Yeah, that's why I half understand it :P 
Fri Nov 23 01:10:52 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I mean some words are nigh indentical to german words I've noticed. 
Fri Nov 23 01:12:18 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: both are heavily based on the same ancient germanic languages with a mix of foreign influences. 
Fri Nov 23 01:12:42 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Well English is dimly germanic too. 
Fri Nov 23 01:13:48 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: yes, the anglo saxons were of germanic origin, and some of their language still seems somewhat present in modern English. 
Fri Nov 23 01:14:08 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: mmhmm. 
Fri Nov 23 01:14:26 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Well there's plenty of germanic influence throughout the history 
Fri Nov 23 01:14:36 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF nods. 
Fri Nov 23 01:16:28 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: will find quite a few french words in the dutch language as well, tho with the modern spelling thats less obvious in written dutch. 
Fri Nov 23 01:16:40 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD grins. 
Fri Nov 23 01:16:44 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Probably. 
Fri Nov 23 01:16:54 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: There's a dutch channel on i3 somewhere I think. 
Fri Nov 23 01:17:04 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: yeah 
Fri Nov 23 01:17:16 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: and its pretty dead :) 
Fri Nov 23 01:17:26 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: It always was =) 
Fri Nov 23 01:18:36 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: no history for it since I connected to yatmim for the first time other then my recent emote. 
Fri Nov 23 01:19:09 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Yeah the users may have moved to adsr. 
Fri Nov 23 01:19:27 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: could be. 
Fri Nov 23 01:21:03 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Heh, there's two messages in the channel history on adsr 
Fri Nov 23 01:21:05 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: Anarres II is connected to both I suppose? 
Fri Nov 23 01:21:13 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Yeah 
Fri Nov 23 01:21:21 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Anarres II runs adsr anyway 
Fri Nov 23 01:21:21 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF nods. 
Fri Nov 23 01:23:12 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: well, lets see when I get to finnish support for multiple networks. The i3 code itself supports it, but there is no support for routing things to the correct network for now. 
Fri Nov 23 01:23:44 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Yeah I know. You have to hack it in at your client instead. 
Fri Nov 23 01:26:24 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: I have a message router and a inband connection object, the later is cloned and configured by the first. The message router only supports one network with one channel list at the moment. The functions for multi network support exist, but are merely stubs for now. 
Fri Nov 23 01:26:40 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD nods. 
Fri Nov 23 01:28:28 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: prolly want imc2 support at some point tho, which would require me to finish that. 
Fri Nov 23 01:28:50 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Yeah, I had IMC2 support half written on here. 
Fri Nov 23 01:30:38 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: IMC2 always struck me as an oddly designed protocol 
Fri Nov 23 01:30:52 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Bits of it don't really serve a purpose 
Fri Nov 23 01:31:54 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: haven't looked into the spec much yet, but hmm, I wasn't too impressed with i3 either :P 
Fri Nov 23 01:32:06 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: IMC2's worse, trust me 
Fri Nov 23 01:32:16 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF chuckles. 
Fri Nov 23 01:32:24 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: I do. 
Fri Nov 23 01:32:45 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I actually went "why?" about one bit and the response was "we don't know but it'll break if you don't do that 
Fri Nov 23 01:32:55 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: still, is it as bad as trying to write a binary telnet server in lpc? 
Fri Nov 23 01:33:07 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF laughs. 
Fri Nov 23 01:34:09 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: It's not bad to write, it's just kinda pointless in parts. 
Fri Nov 23 01:34:23 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Nobody really knows why it does some things, but it's just become standard behaviour 
Fri Nov 23 01:34:25 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: ah, ok. 
Fri Nov 23 01:35:11 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: ww 
Fri Nov 23 01:35:17 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: oops :P 
Fri Nov 23 01:35:33 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD grins. 
Fri Nov 23 01:39:46 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: you aware of any external i3 clients for muds that can't make outbound tcp connections btw? 
Fri Nov 23 01:40:00 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Nope 
Fri Nov 23 01:40:10 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF nods. 
Fri Nov 23 01:41:14 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: been pondering a relatively simple solution, but that would require emulation of mudos' mudmode or save/restore_variable support in lpc (since the actual i3 client would be in lpc in that case) 
Fri Nov 23 01:41:48 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Hmm didn't someone write an entire MudOS emulation layer for DGD? 
Fri Nov 23 01:42:02 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: 'entire' is a big word. 
Fri Nov 23 01:42:21 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: yeah it sounded ambitious, I never did try it. 
Fri Nov 23 01:42:22 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: it supports a substantial subset of the standard mudos efuns tho. 
Fri Nov 23 01:43:33 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: dgd has no form of anonymous functions tho, so that makes a lot of mudos code hard to run on it unless you specifically write it to be portable to begin with. 
Fri Nov 23 01:44:05 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD nods. 
Fri Nov 23 01:44:07 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I noticed. 
Fri Nov 23 01:44:59 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: but on dgd its not very difficult to support save/restore_variable, on most other drivers that lack char indexing on strings its at least clumsy and possibly not even easy to emulate those. 
Fri Nov 23 01:48:13 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: Silenus seems to be looking at preprocessing the mudos lpc dialect and rewrite it on the fly with help of either parse_string or an LRL parser he is playing with tho. 
Fri Nov 23 01:50:36 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD grins. 
Fri Nov 23 01:55:20 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Hmm, time to reflash my phone againI guess. 
Fri Nov 23 01:56:32 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: but well, lets see what comes of that.. I'm trying to get shentino to add intermud support to his lib and phantasmal with a simple external connector that only serves as a packet relay that can make and drop connections on demand. 
Fri Nov 23 01:57:19 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh. 
Fri Nov 23 02:00:23 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: One of these days I'll set up my GP2x with usbnet I think 
Fri Nov 23 02:06:02 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Miniserver! :p 
Fri Nov 23 02:06:20 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh. 
Fri Nov 23 02:06:32 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: You ever seen them? They're kinda cute. 
Fri Nov 23 02:06:50 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: been there, done that, on an ancient palm 515m with bluetooth connection :P 
Fri Nov 23 02:06:52 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: nope. 
Fri Nov 23 02:07:16 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Ah they're an Arm 940 + 920 @ 200Mhz + 64MB RAM + Embedded open linux. 
Fri Nov 23 02:07:30 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: They have USB2.0 Client and USB1.1 host, video out, audio out, etc. 
Fri Nov 23 02:07:34 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: ah, thats nice. 
Fri Nov 23 02:08:02 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I think the breakout for them is RS232 + Parallel + 4x USB + 2x RCA + VGA + S-video 
Fri Nov 23 02:08:18 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: sounds a bit similar to the so called 'thin client' I have here, tho that one is x86 based, and runs FreeBSD in my case. 
Fri Nov 23 02:08:34 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: it has 100mbit ethernet also tho :P 
Fri Nov 23 02:08:54 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Yeah the point was they make great mini media players and mame cabinet guts and whatnot. 
Fri Nov 23 02:09:06 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: They're sold in a kinda portable console format but eh. 
Fri Nov 23 02:09:10 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: its the primary dns for all my domains :) 
Fri Nov 23 02:09:22 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: They just released a new one with a touch screen I hear 
Fri Nov 23 02:09:30 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: completely silent, fast enough etc. 
Fri Nov 23 02:09:36 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD nods. 
Fri Nov 23 02:10:14 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: and could run for hours if not days from a battery pack or maybe even from the power provided by my isdn line :P 
Fri Nov 23 02:10:28 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD grins. 
Fri Nov 23 02:10:41 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Yeah this thing'll run a few hours from 2 x AA batteries. 
Fri Nov 23 02:11:05 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD ponders what'd happen if it was strapped to his UPS. 
Fri Nov 23 02:11:31 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: your ups would discharge itself faster then that device can drain it prolly :P 
Fri Nov 23 02:13:29 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD nods. 
Fri Nov 23 02:13:31 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I imagine so :P 
Fri Nov 23 02:14:31 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: does it have any kind of internal storage besides ram? 
Fri Nov 23 02:14:43 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: 64MB flash + SD card reader. 
Fri Nov 23 02:14:53 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: ah, thats nice. 
Fri Nov 23 02:15:09 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD nodnods. 
Fri Nov 23 02:17:11 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: that thin client I use has 128mb flash, and a usb connected external disk. 
Fri Nov 23 02:17:41 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD nodnods. 
Fri Nov 23 02:17:45 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: SD is cheap and chips now though. 
Fri Nov 23 02:18:08 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: yeah, and I rather like SD. 
Fri Nov 23 02:18:38 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: virtually all my portable devices use it, and have a pocket size reader that plugs directly into a usb port. 
Fri Nov 23 02:19:06 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: makes for a sortof usb stick with replacable flash memory. 
Fri Nov 23 02:19:42 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD grins. 
Fri Nov 23 02:19:50 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: MicroSD amuses me. 8GB in my thumbnail, literally. 
Fri Nov 23 02:20:02 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh. 
Fri Nov 23 02:20:32 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: How cool is that? :P 
Fri Nov 23 02:22:30 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh. I find the cards a bit too small to be really practical, but its cool stuff :) 
Fri Nov 23 02:22:50 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: esp for phones and other devices where space is really at a premium. 
Fri Nov 23 02:22:54 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Well they're for stuff you tend to put them in and forget, like pda-hphones. 
Fri Nov 23 02:23:34 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF nods. 
Fri Nov 23 02:24:49 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Bugger, I can't find a simple RS232 cable. 
Fri Nov 23 02:24:59 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF laughs. 
Fri Nov 23 02:25:33 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: I've one in plain sight.. running to an ancient vt320 terminal in another room. 
Fri Nov 23 02:27:07 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: hmm, thats a nullmodem cable tho I guess. 
Fri Nov 23 02:27:49 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: ah no, it uses a nullmodem 'converter' on the computer side of it. 
Fri Nov 23 02:33:54 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh.. my mud could easily run on that GP2x given there is some network connection. 
Fri Nov 23 02:34:48 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: tho, it makes intensive use of floats, that might not run too well on an arm based machine I think. 
Fri Nov 23 02:35:20 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: it could surely run on my thin client tho. thats a fun thing to try sometime. 
Fri Nov 23 02:41:48 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Depends on the CPU as to whether it handles floats, the samsung CPUs have FPUs I think. 
Fri Nov 23 02:41:55 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: but no this one'd struggle with floats 
Fri Nov 23 02:43:49 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Apologies for the long delay btw, was looking for an RS232 cable and failing. I found one in my 'stuff that's really really old' section but it's about 2 inches long 
Fri Nov 23 02:44:17 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I also found an 0 meg harddrive 
Fri Nov 23 02:44:25 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Er *80 
Fri Nov 23 02:48:13 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: hehe 
Fri Nov 23 02:51:15 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: hmm. mud could run in 32mb memory easily right now. just need external storage for the dump file. sounds like a feasable solution for running a backup mud. 
Fri Nov 23 03:00:12 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: It has 64MB 
Fri Nov 23 03:01:17 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: If I ever remember to link mine up you can have a whack at it if you like. I honestly haven't had the time or energy to do much with it 
Fri Nov 23 03:06:59 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: hehe, well, don't think I'd get to that anytime soon, too many interesting things on my list already.. but running a backup on my thin client would be a matter of mounting a memory filesystem for dgd's swapfile, and configuring things such that the dumpfile is read and written from an external filesystem. 
Fri Nov 23 03:08:03 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Grr, great. I bother to build this entire system and now I can't get it to install windows, it just keeps sticking in the same place which is odd cause the iso I'm using to burn should be fine, I've used it many a time before 
Fri Nov 23 03:08:11 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: the driver would simply work since its the same architecture and OS.. if you have a compiler on that machine, it would be possible to do tho without much efford. :P 
Fri Nov 23 03:08:47 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I imagine you can get the necessary build tools for it. I haven't looked but it's open linux... I mean what're the chances? :P 
Fri Nov 23 03:09:09 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: more a matter of available storage usually :P 
Fri Nov 23 03:09:21 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Well that's easy, I just slot a coupla gig SD card. 
Fri Nov 23 03:09:47 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: I run openwrt on a wrt54g, there I simply don't have the storage for such things.. 
Fri Nov 23 03:10:00 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD nods. 
Fri Nov 23 03:10:04 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Well that only has 32MB right? 
Fri Nov 23 03:10:12 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: yes. 
Fri Nov 23 03:10:52 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: and a tiny bit of flash :P 
Fri Nov 23 03:10:54 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Not exactly expansive :p 
Fri Nov 23 03:12:10 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: with its programmable switch its a very neat device tho. 
Fri Nov 23 03:13:00 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: the wireless is just a bonus for running a wifi client or something like a kismet node.. it isn't acting as access point. 
Fri Nov 23 03:13:14 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD grins. 
Fri Nov 23 03:30:14 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: at any rate.. gonna get some sleep. Have a good night, was nice talking to you. 
Fri Nov 23 03:30:20 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD waves. 
Fri Nov 23 15:51:45 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD pats onna head. 
Fri Nov 23 18:47:29 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF mumbles something. 
Sat Nov 24 20:13:15 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: hmm. decided to put some work into supporting multiple networks afterall. 
Sat Nov 24 22:56:48 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Hrm 
Sat Nov 24 22:57:02 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: My i3 daemon needs work I see. 
Sat Nov 24 23:16:05 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Test: ah? 
Sat Nov 24 23:16:51 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD points at igossip. 
Sat Nov 24 23:18:09 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: ah yep.. 
Sat Nov 24 23:20:03 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: had some similar problems in the past, seems its pretty stable now tho. 
Sat Nov 24 23:20:27 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: helps prolly that I'm usuallyconnected to i4 and the fallover code works. 
Sat Nov 24 23:20:53 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Yeah I'm pretty sure I'm just not reconnecting on drops. 
Sat Nov 24 23:37:13 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh, added some code to disconnect and switch routers whe a router starts spewing junk a while ago as well. 
Sat Nov 24 23:37:51 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: now just need the mud o restart the service when it gets its state restored. 
Mon Nov 26 04:18:57 2007 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Demo: I guess this is the new dgd channel :P 
Mon Nov 26 04:26:10 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I deny everything! 
Mon Nov 26 04:26:30 2007 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Demo: :P 
Mon Nov 26 04:27:50 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I do 
Mon Nov 26 04:27:56 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: I even deny tht I deny everything 
Mon Nov 26 04:29:10 2007 [dgd] Silenus@Dreamverse-DS: I just read Bart/Aidil's post on the mailing list and decided to see if there was any interesting discussions going on here 
Mon Nov 26 04:31:01 2007 [dgd] Silenus@Dreamverse-DS: heh 
Mon Nov 26 04:33:17 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: Happens sometimes. 
Mon Nov 26 04:35:31 2007 [dgd] Silenus@Dead Souls Demo: currently on vacation so trying not to do much mud coding 
Mon Nov 26 04:41:39 2007 [dgd] Marajin@AndroDGD: it's easy when you practice 
Tue Nov 27 19:09:05 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: cool, my mudmode connection object works.. no more mudmode emulation in the I3 client itself :) 
Tue Nov 27 19:15:54 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Test lowers his head, thinks deeply, and hmmmms. 
Thu Dec  6 17:41:59 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF peers around. 
Sat Dec  8 21:33:48 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF woos in great pleasure. 
Sat Dec  8 21:34:18 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: my nonblocking connect patch seems to work, including delaying the call to open() 
Mon Dec 10 00:57:26 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: wellwell.. got dgd 1.2.105 compiling with network patches.. now it dumps core when making or accepting a new connection, and oh joy, I actually seem to understand why :P 
Mon Dec 10 17:46:43 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF woos in great pleasure. 
Mon Dec 10 19:27:50 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: oh.... 
Mon Dec 10 19:28:06 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: I have DGD 1.2.105 running with outgoing tcp connections :) 
Tue Dec 11 19:18:21 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: Mmm. 
Tue Dec 11 19:19:35 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: hmm? 
Tue Dec 11 19:21:28 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: I'm glad you got something working on a more recent (experimental) version. 
Tue Dec 11 19:22:16 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: it should also apply to the latest version btw. 
Tue Dec 11 19:22:26 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: but it needs thorough testing :) 
Tue Dec 11 19:23:44 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: that my experimental mud happens to work with it says something.. but not too much :) esp. curious if it works with klib. 
Tue Dec 11 19:25:36 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: btw.. the webserver you get it from is running on 1.2.130 now :) 
Tue Dec 11 19:25:58 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: thought to give it some testing that way.. :) 
Tue Dec 11 19:26:44 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: btw, it doesn't include my 'delayed connect()' patches, didn't get to that yet. 
Tue Dec 11 19:27:52 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: Is that the ansi patch in there also? 
Tue Dec 11 19:27:54 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: besides.. if this works well for others, I'll want to redo the comms/connection code for it to comply more with how that works in experimental DGD. 
Tue Dec 11 19:28:04 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: ah yes, that one is in there. 
Tue Dec 11 19:28:26 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: should mention that somewhere I suppose. 
Tue Dec 11 19:38:27 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: hmm, you do anything with DGD btw, Alecksy? 
Tue Dec 11 19:39:11 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: Not really. I got really good at following Phantasmal's installation instructions, but that's about it. 
Tue Dec 11 19:39:21 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: hehe. 
Tue Dec 11 19:40:05 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: hmm, I'm one of those loony people writing their own lib on DGD :) 
Tue Dec 11 19:41:58 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: I wish I had the lpc experience to actually make sense of the DGD libs. From what I can tell, it's a very sane driver. 
Tue Dec 11 19:43:10 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: yep.. its small and fast.. and very well defined in what it does. 
Tue Dec 11 20:06:06 2007 [dgd] Jimorie@WOTF: Hello DGD world. 
Tue Dec 11 20:06:24 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF cheers Jimorie on. 
Tue Dec 11 20:07:32 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF smiles. 
Tue Dec 11 20:21:12 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: oh, I updated the package with a little bit of extra info. 
Tue Dec 11 20:21:42 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: mostly to say that the ansi patch is also in there, and my delayed connect() patch isn't yet. 
Tue Dec 11 22:31:41 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel hums a happy tune. 
Tue Dec 11 22:51:52 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh.. dgd experimental does have its cool features.. compile from (array of) strings, and being able to preprocess include files in lpc is pretty cool.. :) 
Wed Dec 12 01:02:42 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF smiles. 
Wed Dec 12 03:33:36 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF sings: Is there anybody out there... 
Wed Dec 12 17:55:12 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel skips about. 
Wed Dec 12 17:56:17 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: will be a new version of the network package in a few hours, containing my connect() fixes and some fixes to the package itself, including one to make the precompiler work again. 
Wed Dec 12 17:56:53 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: oh, and hopefully a somewhat modernized version of the I3 code from gurbalib 
Wed Dec 12 18:12:45 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: Sweet. 
Thu Dec 13 01:31:12 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF smiles. 
Thu Dec 13 01:32:44 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: new package is out there.. http://mud.wotf.org/dgd.html 
Thu Dec 13 22:28:55 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF smiles. 
Fri Dec 14 04:13:40 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: Any phantasmal users out there? 
Sat Dec 15 04:37:13 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: anyone here? 
Sat Dec 15 04:39:29 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: Yep, but I likely don't count. 
Sat Dec 15 04:39:50 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF laughs. 
Sat Dec 15 04:40:04 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: well, was curious if there was anyone there at all. 
Sat Dec 15 04:40:12 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax powerlurks. 
Sat Dec 15 04:40:46 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: want to play with a klib that sortof works on the network package? 
Sat Dec 15 04:40:54 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: Hell yeah 
Sat Dec 15 04:41:02 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF nods. 
Sat Dec 15 04:41:14 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: lemme wrap it up and make a tar.gz 
Sat Dec 15 04:41:34 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: its a bit hacky, but I can login to it on telnet and binary ports. 
Sat Dec 15 04:41:38 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: I'll wet myself if I get a working phantasmal with I3. 
Sat Dec 15 04:41:46 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF laughs out loud. 
Sat Dec 15 04:41:50 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: well... 
Sat Dec 15 04:42:04 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: I have a phantasmal with i3 tells working.. 
Sat Dec 15 04:42:12 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: theres lots of other stuff broken tho. 
Sat Dec 15 04:42:14 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax twitches. 
Sat Dec 15 04:42:34 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: phantasmal and the networking kernel don't like eachother really. 
Sat Dec 15 04:42:46 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: but some of that is 1.2.132 related. 
Sat Dec 15 04:43:00 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: anyway.. gimme a minute to remove some junk :) 
Sat Dec 15 04:43:10 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: sure 
Sat Dec 15 04:53:57 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: theres a linux binary included, and a small bugfix to the driver code. 
Sat Dec 15 04:55:03 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: the port object and userd changes are somewhat incomplete. 
Sat Dec 15 04:55:37 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: been busy with that to get phantasmal working, but that requires some hacks right now that I rather don't like. 
Sat Dec 15 04:58:07 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: if you are looking for I3 code for porting to phantasmal, the code from Gurbalib can be used freely, and theres some useful stuff on http://mud.wotf.org/dgd.html :) 
Sat Dec 15 05:04:10 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: I'd like to see a few more dgd users on i3 also.. :) 
Sat Dec 15 05:05:08 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: so hmm.. hope to release klib patches for networking and a minimal I3 client this weeked. 
Sat Dec 15 05:11:12 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: ever played with what some lpmuds call a vcompiler? 
Sat Dec 15 05:12:00 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: basicly it allows you to compile and clone objects with names different then their filename. 
Sat Dec 15 05:12:18 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: been playing with that concept a bit this evening. 
Sat Dec 15 05:12:38 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: implementing it on dgd that is :) 
Sat Dec 15 05:14:27 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: made a small virtual room daemon based on it.. ok, it doesn't generate any descs, just a default one or one saved for the room, but its some 65 lines of code, whereas the equivalent that I use on my mud is some 400 lines of code :) 
Sat Dec 15 05:15:21 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: I haven't played with it, but it's things like that that draw me to dgd -- I'd like to be able to create a persistent object on the fly through an eval (or whatever) without it ever even having to exist on disk. It's created and lives until it dies, if that makes sense. (This assumes a persistent world, of course) 
Sat Dec 15 05:15:51 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: makes a lot of sense :) 
Sat Dec 15 05:16:35 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: keeping track of objects becomes hugely important tho. 
Sat Dec 15 05:17:07 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: spent a fair bit of time finding a bug in my object/clone tracking that kept missig one object. 
Sat Dec 15 05:17:37 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: ended up adding code to the driver to analyse a statedump while it was being restored. 
Sat Dec 15 05:17:45 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: Yeah. One of the things I liked about phantasmal (iirc) is every compiled object is assigned a unique id (pretty much the same as a dbref in coldc and on MOO/MUSH/etc) 
Sat Dec 15 05:18:05 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel nods. 
Sat Dec 15 05:19:25 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: phantasmal uses klib for its initial booting and object tracking, and for all its clone tracking for what I know. 
Sat Dec 15 05:19:37 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: I don't use klib tho. :) 
Sat Dec 15 05:19:47 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: so well, had to do that myself. 
Sat Dec 15 05:20:21 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: its kinda funny.. the object in question depends on something which no longer exists, and if refered to will cause a crash. 
Sat Dec 15 05:21:23 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: no longer exists as in, driver code that no longer exists. at any rate, its impossible to refer to it since there exist no references, and it is blacklisted for get/find_object and such. 
Sat Dec 15 05:22:15 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: hunting it down was kinda fun tho.. gave me a lot more insight in how the driver works. 
Sat Dec 15 05:24:59 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: hmm. phantasmal reminds me a bit of the java runtime library :P 
Sat Dec 15 05:25:23 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: yes, it surely does what it should do.. and prolly in a technically well designed way.. 
Sat Dec 15 05:25:58 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: its also pretty huge and overly complicated for what it does :) 
Sat Dec 15 05:26:50 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: bare phantasmal runs out of memory and swapspace with settings in which my mud can happily live twice with almost a year uptime now. 
Sat Dec 15 05:26:54 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: Honestly, I liked it only because it seemed to be the only dgd lib at the time that I could get running in under 5 minutes. Then once it was running I was like "huh? what's all this.. feh" and went back to more familiar spaghetti bowls. 
Sat Dec 15 05:27:32 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: heh. well.. phantasmal has its own share of spaghetti :P 
Sat Dec 15 05:27:54 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: which is what gave me headaches to get it to work at all with my patched kernel and driver. 
Sat Dec 15 05:28:10 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: part of that is prolly fixable in the kernel. 
Sat Dec 15 05:28:16 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: Although 'more familiar' is pretty relative -- I've probably got a total of 20 hours LPC experience if I only count actual time spent inside code. 
Sat Dec 15 05:28:50 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: but hrm. hunting down why the hell it wasn't seeing any data on incomming connections was.. interesting :P 
Sat Dec 15 05:28:58 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: heh. 
Sat Dec 15 05:29:22 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: its easy to get running with the bundled installer. 
Sat Dec 15 05:30:04 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: if its about a practical and relatively clean lib, I'm quite fond of gurbalib. Its too bad its really outdated and needs major work to work on modern dgd. 
Sat Dec 15 05:30:42 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: tho, I did get a hold of Erlend in the meantime, and seems he has been collecting patches to get it to run on modern versions of dgd. 
Sat Dec 15 05:31:00 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: and I'm quite fond of what Shentino is doing :P 
Sat Dec 15 05:31:28 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: I keep meaning to look at kotaka, but haven't yet 
Sat Dec 15 05:31:28 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: he writes interestingly minimalistic and very well thought out things from what I saw. 
Sat Dec 15 05:34:04 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: I never got to the point of running it, but I looked at the code, and its all pretty clean and well thought out from what I saw. 
Sat Dec 15 05:35:40 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: heh. I hate the way the kernel deals with users. its one of the reasons why only telnet connections work with phantasmal and the network patches. 
Sat Dec 15 05:56:30 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax heads to bed, hoping for more playtime over the weekend. 
Sat Dec 15 05:56:40 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: :) 
Sat Dec 15 05:56:44 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: sleep well. 
Sat Dec 15 17:55:48 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: That reminds me -- do you know offhand if you can check for the presense of a kfun on dgd at runtime? 
Sat Dec 15 17:57:34 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: hmm. not really. 
Sat Dec 15 17:58:02 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: that is, you can't tell if its a kfun, you can try to call it anyway and see what happens I suppose :) 
Sat Dec 15 17:59:41 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: The idea is to check whether it exists and do something that uses it, or not, rather than just erroring on a non-existent function when it tries to call it. 
Sat Dec 15 17:59:59 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel nods. 
Sat Dec 15 18:00:55 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: well, the network package simply defines something you can let the preprocessor check on. 
Sat Dec 15 18:01:17 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: ie.. #ifdef __NETWORK_PACKAGE__ 
Sat Dec 15 18:01:45 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: which is used in std.h to define SYS_NETWORKING 
Sat Dec 15 18:01:45 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: That's available from lpc? 
Sat Dec 15 18:02:01 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: no, but you can easily make that available from lpc. 
Sat Dec 15 18:02:39 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: That's really all I'm after, is a way to determine whether an optional package/extention/whatever is present from within lpc. 
Sat Dec 15 18:03:17 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: add something to your auto object like #ifdef SYS_NETWORKING void some_silly_function() #endif, and then use if(function_object("some_silly_function",object) == AUTO) 
Sat Dec 15 18:04:37 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: its a bit of a hack, but the idea is to add a public function to the auto object if a package is available, and use function_object() to see if it is defined, and if so, if it is defined by the auto object. 
Sat Dec 15 18:05:18 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: in case of the network package, most functions are static, but the idea might still work. 
Sat Dec 15 18:05:20 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@Sax: Hrm. 
Sat Dec 15 18:06:00 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: in most cases, you mask kfuns in the auto object to get control over them from lpc. 
Sat Dec 15 18:08:22 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: but hmm. the usual way to deal with this is write 2 versions of the code and use the preprocessor to pick one of both at compiletime. 
Sat Dec 15 18:08:46 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: the first reason for that would be that that is in the end much cheaper both in memory and cpu cost. 
Sat Dec 15 19:05:42 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: whee :) 
Sat Dec 15 19:06:00 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: status() and my object manager agree on the number of objects.. 
Sat Dec 15 19:06:22 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: after having loaded a few 100k objects and destroying them again.. 
Sun Dec 16 17:03:09 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF smiles. 
Sun Dec 16 17:04:49 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Router puts his fingers to his lips and goes: blblblblblblblblblbl. 
Wed Dec 19 03:21:47 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: hmm. looks like Dworkin's delayed rebuilding of the swapfile in 1.2.133 might have a bug. 
Sun Dec 23 03:21:48 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh. Dworkin's new gradual rebuilding of the swapfile is a curious affair :) 
Sun Dec 23 03:22:54 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: each time dgd does a statedump, it ends up having to copy everything back to the swapfile (ie, it does a rebuild after every statedump). 
Fri Dec 28 22:52:41 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: parse_string is nice :) 
Fri Dec 28 22:52:57 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: draw saber, wield it and activate it. 
Fri Dec 28 22:53:25 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: smile at jedi, draw saber, activate it and throw it at him 
Fri Dec 28 22:54:05 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: don't want to see the grammar and code that makes that work :P 
Fri Dec 28 22:55:35 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD doesn't, no. 
Fri Dec 28 22:56:03 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: its completely generic tho :) 
Fri Dec 28 22:57:43 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: it splits things in 'verb parsing' and actions in a way very similar to how the skotos engine does things. 
Sat Dec 29 22:22:17 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: That's hardcore outgoing connection hate. 
Sat Dec 29 22:22:55 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: Dworkin? heh. 
Sat Dec 29 22:23:07 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD nods solemnly. 
Sat Dec 29 22:23:11 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: I'm gonna answer that bit tomorrow. key word is arbitrary. 
Sat Dec 29 22:24:45 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: he knows he is wrong, the driver DOES initiate 'connections' anyway eventho that is usually udp for hostname resolving. 
Sat Dec 29 22:25:45 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: and he added that bit for a good reason. its not about initiating outgoing traffic, but about stopping arbitrary untrusted coders from making use of them. The 'external connection daemon' doesn't solve that issue, it just adds to it :) 
Sat Dec 29 22:27:35 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: I just don't understand what's special about connections that you can't secure them in the lib the same as any other efun. 
Sat Dec 29 22:33:36 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: point is, if they are driver provided, and you write a sane auto object, it is extremely easy to secure them. 
Sat Dec 29 22:33:56 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: Right. 
Sat Dec 29 22:36:02 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: Most of the arguments I've seen tend to boil down to "you're not smart enough to secure them", or "I don't trust dgd's security model", or "I've always said no so I'm going to keep saying no". 
Sat Dec 29 22:42:00 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: there. answered that. 
Sat Dec 29 22:48:43 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: I never really understood the issue with securing them either.. but then.. 
Sat Dec 29 22:49:23 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: people usually act as if connections are something really special and difficult, same seems true for those doing socket code on mudos. 
Sat Dec 29 23:04:06 2007 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test: Weird. I don't feel that way. 
Sat Dec 29 23:04:22 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel nods. 
Sat Dec 29 23:05:22 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: outgoing connections bring the issue that you can bother other machines on the internet with them, so I see an argument as to why you'd want to be extra careful with them, but there is nothing inherently difficult about them :P 
Sun Dec 30 01:00:45 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel laughs. 
Sun Dec 30 01:00:59 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: think Dworkin isn't gonna like me tonight :P 
Sun Dec 30 01:01:23 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: Might be a foregone conclusion, m'lord. 
Sun Dec 30 01:01:39 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: hehe. well, more like, thats no news anyway :) 
Sun Dec 30 01:03:45 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: Oh gee. We got "you're not smart enough to secure them" again. C'mon. 
Sun Dec 30 01:04:34 2007 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD is catching up. 
Sun Dec 30 01:06:14 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: well, he has the liability argument, "I didn't do it" kinda. Fair enough, the rest is really bs. 
Sun Dec 30 04:00:09 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: heh. Zell mixing himself into the discussion. 
Sun Dec 30 04:00:55 2007 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF Devel: I'd just say.. from the DGD kernel.. #ifdef __SKOTOS__ #define SYS_NETWORKING 
Tue Jan  1 01:14:51 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF is getting deja vue feelings :P 
Wed Jan  2 05:02:13 2008 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: Ow. 
Wed Jan  2 05:03:21 2008 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: @delete'ing a portable in your inventory on phantasmal hosed my player obj. 
Wed Jan  2 05:03:29 2008 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: in my* 
Wed Jan  2 06:56:06 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh, fun.. 
Wed Jan  2 06:56:44 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: so.. am I going to tell Dworkin he is being rediculous? 
Wed Jan  2 06:57:00 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: don't think that happened ever in the 5 years I use DGD but.. 
Wed Jan  2 06:57:20 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: if you add more code and more points of failure, you statistically add vulnerabilities also :P 
Wed Jan  2 07:15:15 2008 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test: the argument seems rather boring to me 
Wed Jan  2 07:15:25 2008 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test: Why not just handle sockets like MudOS does? 
Wed Jan  2 07:16:11 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: Dworkin's argument for that makes some sense if you consider that he does actually sell a product and has to deal with liability. 
Wed Jan  2 07:16:46 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: beyond that, if you install my patches you get something somewhat similar to mudos. 
Wed Jan  2 07:17:03 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: at least with regards to connection handling :) 
Wed Jan  2 07:18:17 2008 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test: Why would he have to deal with how people use his product? People use Windows to perform all sorts of illegal stuff but Microsoft isn't liable. 
Wed Jan  2 07:19:02 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: different kind of contract, different price. 
Wed Jan  2 07:20:10 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: on a sidenote, he is being quite supportive in keeping the patches working with his changes, its not like he really doesn't see why its useful :) 
Wed Jan  2 07:20:58 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: but oh well :) 
Wed Jan  2 07:21:38 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: I'm making this and I don't want it so I won't do it.. well, fair enough :) 
Wed Jan  2 07:22:00 2008 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test: yup 
Wed Jan  2 07:22:06 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: no ridiculous argument about how adding points of failure doesn't add vulnerabilities is needed. 
Wed Jan  2 07:23:10 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: so :) do you do anything with dgd other then reading the mailinglist? 
Wed Jan  2 07:26:17 2008 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test: I develop a mudlib for MudOS, so no not really 
Wed Jan  2 07:26:27 2008 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test: However, I do have intentions to get more involved, lol 
Wed Jan  2 07:26:57 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: hehe, well, I know about your lib :) being a lib developer myself, I do take a look at the other stuff out there :) 
Wed Jan  2 07:28:57 2008 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test grins. 
Wed Jan  2 07:30:19 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: hmm. how heavily does saplib/lpuni use closures and/or function pointers? 
Wed Jan  2 07:30:56 2008 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test: I try to minimize it as much as possible but I do get lazy sometimes, lol 
Wed Jan  2 07:31:08 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF nods. 
Wed Jan  2 07:32:38 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: once I'm done with my kernel/lib upgrade, and things in lpuni stabilize a bit, we may take a look at if we can get it to work on top of my kernel for dgd :P 
Wed Jan  2 07:32:56 2008 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test: That would be pretty awesome :) 
Wed Jan  2 07:33:08 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: since unlike the normal kernel lib, I actually aim at providing a very high level of compatibility with 'traditional' drivers. 
Wed Jan  2 07:56:00 2008 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test: I'd be very interested in working with you on that 
Wed Jan  2 07:57:53 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: well, I'd at least like to give it a try since it would be a very good test of my kernel code :) 
Wed Jan  2 07:58:41 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: question will be if it actually achieves something beyond finding obscure bugs :) 
Wed Jan  2 08:03:35 2008 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test: hehe 
Wed Jan  2 08:05:09 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: have a long standing plan to try this with a pre-ldmud version of H7.. but doing so with a lib for which there are some people around who work on it at least every so often seems like a much better plan.. :) 
Wed Jan  2 08:06:19 2008 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test: hehe. 
Wed Jan  2 08:09:22 2008 [dgd] Tacitus@RtH Test: welp, time for bed I'd say 
Wed Jan  2 08:09:48 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: hehe. I just woke up :P 
Wed Jan  2 08:09:54 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: goodnight. 
Wed Jan  2 08:11:00 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: The ways of the Living Force are beyond our understanding... But fear not. You are in the hands of something much greater and much better than you can imagine. 
Wed Jan  2 15:07:56 2008 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: been skimming this networking debate, i'm a little worried 
Wed Jan  2 15:08:30 2008 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: i'm afraid i'm going to have to stop skimming and actually read it, cuz i'm not getting some of these arguments :( 
Wed Jan  2 16:39:12 2008 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: what is the advantage of a mailing list over a forum? 
Wed Jan  2 16:39:52 2008 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: Push rather than pull, and the interface. 
Wed Jan  2 16:40:26 2008 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: i can see the interface preference 
Wed Jan  2 16:40:36 2008 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: since you use yer fave client 
Wed Jan  2 16:41:09 2008 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: These days it doesn't matter much assuming the forum is decent with things like email notifications and rss/etc feeds. 
Wed Jan  2 16:41:15 2008 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: But there's pretty crappy forums out there. 
Wed Jan  2 16:41:37 2008 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: i guess i feel like it might be fun to say something on the dgd mailing list but subscribing seems like a serious commitment 
Wed Jan  2 16:42:00 2008 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: maybe avoiding trivial people like me is an advantage 
Wed Jan  2 16:42:10 2008 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: I'd agree with that. 
Wed Jan  2 16:42:47 2008 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: i'll conserve my dramatrons 
Wed Jan  2 16:43:46 2008 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: my comments would most likely elicit some variation of "so use mudos, then" 
Wed Jan  2 16:44:39 2008 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: Nah. Easier to killfile than reply. 
Wed Jan  2 16:44:53 2008 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: touche 
Wed Jan  2 16:45:05 2008 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: Depends on the comments though, really. 
Wed Jan  2 16:46:48 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF laughs. 
Wed Jan  2 16:47:29 2008 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: i actually wasnt sure if i should join this channel. you guys are all serious and know C and stuff 
Wed Jan  2 16:47:37 2008 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: and i'm just a drama llama 
Wed Jan  2 16:47:51 2008 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: Aidil, do you know if there are any real dgd docs beyond what's in the /doc directory in the distribution? 
Wed Jan  2 16:47:55 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: heh, one that happens to run this router tho :P 
Wed Jan  2 16:48:17 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: phantasmal website and the mailinglist mostly. 
Wed Jan  2 16:48:25 2008 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD sobs. 
Wed Jan  2 16:48:35 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: Noah Gibbs wrote a lot of interesting stuff.. but hmm. 
Wed Jan  2 16:48:58 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: use the source :P 
Wed Jan  2 16:49:18 2008 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: I'm still recovering from doing that with mudos. 
Wed Jan  2 16:49:40 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: and Crat, you provide a router.. entertainment, and a nice lib :P 
Wed Jan  2 16:49:53 2008 [dgd] Aidil@WOTF: not too bad for a drama llama. 
Wed Jan  2 16:50:07 2008 [dgd] Alecksy@EoD: Definitely. 
Wed Jan  2 16:50:25 2008 [dgd] Cratylus@Dead Souls Demo: k jus lemme know if i get out of line 
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