Mon Aug 24 04:18:08 2009
[dchat]
Eltari@Porphyra: We've had a pretty good run so far with M-series hardware - no field failures outside of disks and a bad batch of Neptune quaddies. Partitioning-wise, the only domained boxes I've done so far have been M9000-64s and there's enough room to move in there.
Mon Aug 24 04:19:39 2009
[dchat]
Eltari@Porphyra: The Ikkaku - M3000 - looks to be the absolute winner for a home SPARC box these days. Not too noisy, quite capable.
Mon Aug 24 04:20:13 2009
[dchat]
Eltari@Porphyra: Have fun doing those backplane connection cables on your first M9000-64...
Mon Aug 24 04:20:14 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: havent seen an M3000 out of a data ctr so i cant judge the noise
Mon Aug 24 04:20:56 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: ever notice there's no cable ports at the top of the M8000?
Mon Aug 24 04:21:02 2009
[dchat]
Eltari@Porphyra: Generally, Sun services will get packaged in with M9 so you'll probably be able to avoid it.
Mon Aug 24 04:21:32 2009
[dchat]
Eltari@Porphyra: I haven't seen an M8 - none of my clients have bought one. They seem to go straight to M9 at that size.
Mon Aug 24 04:24:18 2009
[dchat]
Eltari@Porphyra: Well, I better go eat some lunch. Have a good one.
Mon Aug 24 04:40:43 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines has an old diskless Sparc ELC with a dead battery that might still work. Last time I fired it up, I had to type in the hex code to reprogram the MAC address, and then it booted up just fine.
Mon Aug 24 04:42:58 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i hosed up an old u2 now it has all zeroes for a mac
Mon Aug 24 04:43:10 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i have to dig up the procedure for changing it
Mon Aug 24 05:02:12 2009
[dchat]
Tsarenzi@Sremassande: Anyone have any thoughts on the merits of different ways to include skill into a creation system? Ie allows different patterns to be made, chance of failure/ruining materials, or different levels of quality?
Mon Aug 24 05:10:42 2009
[dchat]
Traveller@Spirit World: well, ruining materials is incredibly annoying, period
Mon Aug 24 05:13:13 2009
[dchat]
Tsarenzi@Sremassande: is creating an inferior item ruining it in your mind? What if that's only in the look of the item, not in actual useful properties?
Mon Aug 24 05:13:52 2009
[dchat]
Traveller@Spirit World: hm, that's actually not bad--if skill doesn't tweak game balance that much, but is still desirable, like letting people string the item more or something
Mon Aug 24 05:14:44 2009
[dchat]
Traveller@Spirit World: It does kinda depend on how your market works... If high-skill people can create what low-skill people can, but they can do it better/cheaper/etc, then the game really sucks for low-skill people unless they are making stuff for themselves only
Mon Aug 24 05:16:31 2009
[dchat]
Tsarenzi@Sremassande: Is there any way to get around that? High-skill people would always be able to create the things low-skill people could, having once been low-skill, they shouldn't lose those capabilities.
Mon Aug 24 05:17:10 2009
[dchat]
Traveller@Spirit World: The key here is that they shouldn't be better at it, otherwise life sucks for newbies
Mon Aug 24 05:17:46 2009
[dchat]
Traveller@Spirit World: if the impact of your crafting is limited to you and your friends, and you aren't actually competing with other crafters, then go wild
Mon Aug 24 05:18:15 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: suppose yer mud had no crafting just killing for expee
Mon Aug 24 05:18:32 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: that means high level guys can kill smurfs, just like low level guys
Mon Aug 24 05:18:46 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: but oh no, now low level guys have no smurfs to kill
Mon Aug 24 05:18:56 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: in reality, the high level guys dont bother with smurfs
Mon Aug 24 05:22:16 2009
[dchat]
Tsarenzi@Sremassande: Very true. Hmm, I think I'm leaning more towards a straight requires certain amount of skill system. Having an additional skill 'surcharge' for the different materials wouldn't end up excluding newbies entirely, I wouldn't think? Like 10 crafting skill to make a necklace, +5 to use silver, and +10 to use gold.. So with 15 you could make a silver necklace? And with 20 a gold one.
Mon Aug 24 05:25:16 2009
[dchat]
Traveller@Spirit World: skill required per blueprint is the standard MMO model, and it works okay for them--again, with a large economy
Mon Aug 24 05:27:20 2009
[dchat]
Tsarenzi@Sremassande: Looking for a system which allows a high amount of personalization, but not necessarily for any certain economy set up.
Mon Aug 24 05:32:49 2009
[dchat]
Traveller@Spirit World: well, if it's entirely aesthetics you're going for, and not so much game balance...well, one way to make sure low level crafters are still a part of the game is that, regardless of how the skill system works, make sure that they can customize each piece specific to the customer. there will always be someone who wants the low level stuff, and low level merchants will be happy to do that
Mon Aug 24 05:36:16 2009
[dchat]
Tsarenzi@Sremassande: I do want to do more to it than just aesthetics, though that's mostly what I've got so far. Seeming like just going fairly easy will be sufficient and I'm not hearing any calls for the fun and excitement of realism.
Mon Aug 24 07:27:15 2009
[dchat]
Eltari@Porphyra: Implement realism - half the time the materials are shoddy, they turn up a week late from the supplier and the gold turns out to be painted lead and the supplier has just closed up shop.
Mon Aug 24 07:28:22 2009
[dchat]
Tsarenzi@Sremassande: Hee. I have the feeling that the people trying to use that system would not be as amused as we would.
Mon Aug 24 07:29:55 2009
[dchat]
Eltari@Porphyra: Furthermore, tools that are shoddy are likely to break halfway through and destroy materials and take your face off ... "Your attempt to craft this chair using the Kan-Tong tablesaw has severed your nose." "Playername the noseless leaves east."
Mon Aug 24 07:30:51 2009
[dchat]
Tsarenzi@Sremassande: And thus it becomes a sort of uniform amongst crafters not to have noses?
Mon Aug 24 07:39:58 2009
[dchat]
Traveller@Spirit World: Elaborate twenty-step safety check process involving taking apart the machines and putting them back together every day, that must be typed out. Yeah.
Mon Aug 24 12:08:15 2009
[dchat]
Ninja@Dead Souls Dev: harbor freight - "Some of the tools are decent, or at least adequate, while others may not have the same consistency or quality of higher priced tools"
Mon Aug 24 12:12:08 2009
[dchat]
Sys@BlackHole: that's bare faced, they must carry thier nuts in a wheelbarrow!
Mon Aug 24 12:16:10 2009
[dchat]
Ninja@Dead Souls Dev: some reports say cast iron stuff is okay but avoid 'hardened steel' stuff
Mon Aug 24 13:14:45 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Regarding skill in a crafting system... unlike most of the pretty-boys of today's MMO's, *I* don't have a problem with losing materials due to failure. If I give you a board and tell you to put 2-3/4 inch holes in it, and you cut 3 inch holes, do you somehow magically get the uncut board back? No.
Mon Aug 24 13:15:59 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: That said, it's a nice comprimise if small failures result in poor quality goods, but critical failures result in scraps. Maybe the project would still work with 1/4 inch of slack and just look stupid.
Mon Aug 24 13:16:51 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: The trick there is, you have to make the poor quality goods useful, but still make the perfect run goods superior.
Mon Aug 24 13:18:19 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Hence my suggesting having the lesser quality output useful. :)
Mon Aug 24 13:19:12 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: If you have a player-drive market, that helps, since poor players often can't afford the going rates on perfect items, but could afford the slightly damaged ones.
Mon Aug 24 13:20:36 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: EQ2 used to give scrolls 4 levels of quality, and while the bottom two were usually vendor trash, the 75% one was still worth using and sold much cheaper than the 100% ones.
Mon Aug 24 13:21:55 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: It may be worth noting that they redid their system a while ago, now failures result in you getting back part of the fuel consumed, and part of the materials. The idea being that you realized you screwed up and thus didn't use up ALL the parts.
Mon Aug 24 13:22:45 2009
[dchat]
Aidil@GurbaDev2: all I was commenting on was the 'do you expect' type argument.
Mon Aug 24 13:23:18 2009
[dchat]
Aidil@GurbaDev2: I don't expect my enemies to fall over just because I wave my hand.. but that doesn't mean it can't work that way in a game if I have this magic spell.
Mon Aug 24 13:23:44 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Even though I don't PvP much, several friends of mine are very into PvP, and make the point that competative players will go to insane lengths to get a 0.001% bonus over everyone else. :)
Mon Aug 24 13:25:25 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: That's why I kindof like making the "perfect" goods hard to make, and making the "uber" loot incredibly difficult to get... it should be an accomplishment, not a gimmie. Modern games think everyone should have the best of everything, so they don't cry on the forums.
Mon Aug 24 14:59:14 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: ok. so what's the point of spam that says it came from yourself titled "My Novel". Are the people that go, "Oh! I didn't know I was writing a novel! Let's take a look!"
Mon Aug 24 14:59:56 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: It's so that when your ISP's spam filter rejects it, it gets returned to YOU instead of the actual sender... so you still get to see it.
Mon Aug 24 15:00:57 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: sounds like the spam filter needs put further forward in the process.
Mon Aug 24 15:03:20 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: It's not the filter's fault... it's the fact that sendmail doesn't validate the sender in any way. The SMTP protocol was developed back before the internet had spam (before it was opened to commercial entities, 1992 I believe).
Mon Aug 24 15:03:37 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: http://www.mudbytes.net/index.php?a=topic&t=1934
Mon Aug 24 15:04:02 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: been kind of messing around with other things
Mon Aug 24 15:04:42 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i probably should be more focused on learning how to code tho.
Mon Aug 24 15:06:09 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: hmmm. if I weren't so antisocial, I'd consider coming to NYC. Not *that* far away :P
Mon Aug 24 15:07:16 2009
[dchat]
Ninja@Dead Souls Dev: we sorta hadda mudmeet years back, zakk, me, xyzzy, some others near DC
Mon Aug 24 15:07:53 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: wonder if theres one of those mecha pod parlors near the meet
Mon Aug 24 15:08:25 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: no man's land have to make it to the other side....
Mon Aug 24 15:09:38 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I'd show up if it weren't a zillion miles(TM) away. A zillion == 710 miles. :)
Mon Aug 24 15:10:37 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i think NYC is about 12h off my time zone excluding daylight savings.
Mon Aug 24 15:10:54 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: quix, that's just a 7 hour drive at 100 mph
Mon Aug 24 15:11:51 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: not really from here tho. it'd be nice if some nice ppl from here came
Mon Aug 24 15:12:23 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Now, if I had a job lines up to start the following Monday, that would be a different story. But no job means no money means no driving all over creation. If you decide to host one in Hawaii, I might just show up and become a beach bum anyways. *grin*
Mon Aug 24 15:13:15 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: main problem with doing it in australia is
Mon Aug 24 15:13:46 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Hmmmm, australia might be better... I can run up my credit cards and then say "Seeya!"
Mon Aug 24 15:14:36 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: well you'd get expelled for overstaying your visa eventually
Mon Aug 24 15:14:38 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: It's unsecured debt to American companies, I doubt they'd care.
Mon Aug 24 15:14:54 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: saying it "out loud" is a mistake. spending money you don't have only becomes a crime if you didn't intend to pay it back.
Mon Aug 24 15:15:12 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: if it was in australia heh I might consider going NYC is too far unless I just happen to be in the US.
Mon Aug 24 15:15:23 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Of course... I'd pay it back when I returned to the US (which would be never, but hey... I'd intend to).
Mon Aug 24 15:16:48 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: for a city person like me I might find it a bit too quiet.
Mon Aug 24 15:17:27 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: but you don't get to cook chicken in compost heaps in a city, do you?
Mon Aug 24 15:17:39 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: My only requirements are that it have no snow, low humidity, and internet. Anything else I can work around. :)
Mon Aug 24 15:17:54 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: alot of stuff you cannot do in a city like HK
Mon Aug 24 15:18:08 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: but i think the convenience factor = huge plus for me.
Mon Aug 24 15:18:40 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: im sure hk has peasant zones for activities like compost cooking
Mon Aug 24 15:18:46 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: want to go some place and meet up with folks most places arent farther away than 30 minutes
Mon Aug 24 15:19:36 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: See, once you develop a sincere hatred for humanity, you won't mind not being near folks. :)
Mon Aug 24 15:20:32 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i dunno what you mean by peasant zones tho.
Mon Aug 24 15:20:50 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines gets his bottle of scotch and shotgun, and sits down on the porch to wait for someone to step on his lawn.
Mon Aug 24 15:21:27 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: well US for me is sometimes a bit too quiet
Mon Aug 24 15:21:38 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: though i like the fact you have alot more space
Mon Aug 24 15:22:32 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: I suppose it's all relative. being a Southerner, the northeast is shockingly crowded for me. and a Westerner would probably think my hometown was shockingly crowded.
Mon Aug 24 15:23:23 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: True, the town I grew up in had a population of 4000 (and it was the county capital).
Mon Aug 24 15:23:44 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: and has happened a couple times in the past.
Mon Aug 24 15:23:56 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and sometimes the death goes unnoticed because the other people are jammed up together, propping up the corpse
Mon Aug 24 15:24:35 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: and then the corpse gets mistaken for cat and turned into food, sold to others standing around it.
Mon Aug 24 15:25:31 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: well during festivities the streets get pretty packed.
Mon Aug 24 15:25:32 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: there have been deaths on several occasions.
Mon Aug 24 15:26:18 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: he and his family had performed the hajj, visited mecca
Mon Aug 24 15:26:36 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: well he and his wife, i dont think kids can be brought along for that
Mon Aug 24 15:26:58 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and i allmost joked "lol did you stampeded?"
Mon Aug 24 15:27:40 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i wonder how carefully they monitor the crowds for that
Mon Aug 24 15:27:54 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: the internet frees people to tell the jokes they might get hurt for in person :P
Mon Aug 24 16:07:39 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: oh god. don't you hate it when your movie ends and it starts showing tv and it's a morning talk show?
Mon Aug 24 16:07:53 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: Newest words of wisdom, "I didn't know popcorn was a whole grain!"
Mon Aug 24 16:08:30 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: you can SEE the ENTIRE grain before it pops. if it's not a whole grain, where did the husk *go*? microwave miracle?
Mon Aug 24 16:12:20 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: anyway, my point remains. how could you NOT know popcorn is a whole grain? it's like standing in front of the cow and watching it be slaughtered and then saying, "I didn't know ribeye was meat!"
Mon Aug 24 16:18:51 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: There have actually been people (filthy hippies) who didn't realize that hamburger was cow++
Tue Aug 25 16:00:25 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: if i used boost in C++ code for fluffos is there any chance code like that would be accepted into fluff?
Tue Aug 25 16:01:45 2009
[dchat]
Zaphod@Dead Souls Dev: there must be *some* probability, no matter how small
Tue Aug 25 16:02:33 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: if boost is gpl the probability should be zero
Tue Aug 25 16:03:16 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: unless you mean code formatted for use with boost libraries, rather than boost libraries/headers
Tue Aug 25 16:05:06 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: letme check if the library i am using is on the same boost license
Tue Aug 25 16:05:32 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: If it's BSD licensed, maybe... it would depend on wodan's willingness to force ALL fluffos users to have to install the boost libraries (to use whatever code you're adding, of course).
Tue Aug 25 16:06:17 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: thinking of using boost::object_pool for something
Tue Aug 25 16:06:27 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: If it's an isolated extension, it seems reasonable... even if it were GPL'd, since you're not distributing the whole library, just saying "to use this, you have to go install this first".
Tue Aug 25 16:06:52 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: If it's integrated into the core though, that's a lot of prerequisites, so it better do something really super cool! :)
Tue Aug 25 16:07:30 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i'd strongly oppose it if it meant having to isntall yet another dev library to compile fluffos
Tue Aug 25 16:07:48 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and by strongly oppose it, i'd call you names and follow you around mud forums
Tue Aug 25 16:08:26 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: heh. i wonder if its ok to just include the code in the fluffos distribution
Tue Aug 25 16:08:52 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: even if my implementation is a bit less efficient
Tue Aug 25 16:10:25 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: apparently thats the licence for boost object pool
Tue Aug 25 16:10:27 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: There's also the issue of language... doesn't fluffos compile with a 100% C-only compiler? Boost is C++, no?
Tue Aug 25 16:11:26 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I don't know how much anyone cares about making it still compile on dinosaurs or not. :)
Tue Aug 25 16:12:20 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: so i'd say, yeah whatever, but make it define enabled/disabled
Tue Aug 25 16:15:30 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: saves time for me to implement i guess i could do straight c
Tue Aug 25 16:17:53 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: You can make wonderful things with it, but your soul is no longer your own.
Tue Aug 25 16:17:55 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: but for most common usage i guess you dont run into the nasty legalism.
Tue Aug 25 16:18:18 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: which pervades the standards document i guess.
Tue Aug 25 16:19:02 2009
[dchat]
Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: You could make wonderful things with malbolge, that doesn't mean its a good idea. :-P
Tue Aug 25 16:24:19 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Looks more compilcated than brainfuck.... I'd stick with the basics.
Tue Aug 25 16:25:56 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: BF is just a TM language right? which means you cannot even do stuff like addition in constant time?
Tue Aug 25 16:26:17 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: "Malbolge was so difficult to understand when it arrived that it took two years for the first Malbolge program to appear."
Tue Aug 25 16:26:58 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: "A correct 99 Bottles of Beer program, which deals with non-trivial loops and conditions, was not announced for eight years; the first correct one was by Hisashi Iizawa in 2007."
Tue Aug 25 16:28:59 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i think any sane person would pick O(1) since the CPU directly supports it
Tue Aug 25 16:29:14 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I bet you could implement a CPU using BF as it's core, and run it at about 50GHz *grin*
Tue Aug 25 16:31:48 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Anyways, it's bounded by human stupidity. Humans can't really understand numbers much bigger than 5,000, so you can just estimate for N > 5000.
Tue Aug 25 16:33:10 2009
[dchat]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_%28programming_language%29
Tue Aug 25 16:37:40 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: So, you could write a hybrid C/whitespace program pair that shares the same source, but you can't have an (arbitrary) python/whitespace set.
Tue Aug 25 16:38:43 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Oh, and in case you still doubted that C++ was evil.....
Tue Aug 25 16:38:55 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: "The idea for this language was already mentioned five years earlier by Bjarne Stroustrup."
Tue Aug 25 16:43:08 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: well i find it easier to do certain things in C++ than C since i do not in many cases have to recreate my datastructures because it's OO.
Tue Aug 25 16:44:26 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: C would be a perfect language if strings were a base type.
Tue Aug 25 16:45:18 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I don't like the fact that people seem to think it has to be all one way or all the other.
Tue Aug 25 16:46:04 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: not sure what you mean by that i always viewed OO stuff as kind of mixed paradigm in some sense
Tue Aug 25 16:46:36 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I've seen way too many examples of people wrestling problems around 20 ways to fit it into an object hierarchy, when a couple of functions and a global state variable would have done the job faster and easier to maintain.
Tue Aug 25 16:47:24 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I've also seen the reverse... people struggling to cram namespaces with functions instead of breaking things into a small handful of objects. :)
Tue Aug 25 16:49:20 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: only projects I understand written in C++ to some extent atm is LLVM
Tue Aug 25 16:49:37 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I guess to put it simply, a lot of really bad code gets written for the sake of abstraction, when it would have been easier to just make it work. I hold up the Microsoft Foundation Classes as an example.
Tue Aug 25 16:50:34 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: It can be a useful tool, or a crippling requirement. :)
Tue Aug 25 16:51:00 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: read some MFC stuff at one point but it seemed like a horrid mess
Tue Aug 25 16:51:19 2009
[dchat]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: atl is nice, like stl, you canpick and choose
Tue Aug 25 16:52:13 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: MFC was in use the last time I did Microsoft programming, so you didn't have a choice. Well, not true... I chose to use Visual Basic 5 and sidestep the mess.
Tue Aug 25 16:53:04 2009
[dchat]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: there's always the SDK, you don't have to use MFC
Tue Aug 25 16:53:37 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Hehehehe, you've never worked on a project team with deadlines, have you Kal?
Tue Aug 25 16:54:25 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: In my experience, you use whatever your company already uses, otherwise you're always falling behind and everyone else hates you for doing stuff "wrong".
Tue Aug 25 16:55:07 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: understandable since if you leave they want someone to maintain the code.
Tue Aug 25 16:55:41 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: yes, but only because you're worried someone's watching your chats.
Tue Aug 25 16:56:42 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: ok! so the big question of the afternoon. I juuuust had my teeth cleaned. so do I revel in the cleanliness? Or do I eat because it's lunch time?
Tue Aug 25 16:56:55 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Write OO code, functional code, whatever.. the interpreter will make something out of it.
Tue Aug 25 16:57:26 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: eat indian food, extra spicy, so it burns the cleaning gook off your enamal.
Tue Aug 25 16:57:42 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: maybe it's because i have read too many books on formal languages
Tue Aug 25 16:57:48 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: mmm. indian food. what about something indian-ish? like Thai, perhaps.
Tue Aug 25 16:59:17 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: perl is a mess, but it works well. My only complaint with it is that it's a mushy-typed language.
Tue Aug 25 17:00:07 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Handy for some things (like dynamically making classes for database tables), but it does give you subtle errors sometimes.
Tue Aug 25 17:00:44 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: python seemed fun last time I poked at it... I should probalby revisit that again, it's been a couple revisions.
Tue Aug 25 17:01:11 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: I'm pretty pleased with python as a scripting language.
Tue Aug 25 17:01:19 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: if i had to do perl like stuff i would probably use python
Tue Aug 25 17:01:34 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Yes, auto conversions tend to produce problems when your codebase gets very large.
Tue Aug 25 17:02:21 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strongly_typed_programming_language
Tue Aug 25 17:02:32 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: well it breaks the type system since in general types should form partitions or at most have subtyping rules
Tue Aug 25 17:03:13 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I have no problem with such conversions being allowed, but I don't want the compiler/interpreter doing it behind my back since it may guess wrong on occasion.
Tue Aug 25 17:04:20 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Databases and user input are great examples of times when you might prefer errors to be thrown, as opposed to silently changing the value.
Tue Aug 25 17:05:01 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i guess int -> float might not be so evil though i sometimes think you should have explicit conversion even in that case
Tue Aug 25 17:06:26 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: since floats arent equivalent to rationals or real numbers really
Tue Aug 25 17:07:10 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Hmmm, does python have a rational type? Seemed like one of the newer languages did.
Tue Aug 25 17:08:56 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i guess checking A == B might be a bit tricky with rationals unless you do a GCD and divide after every operation.
Tue Aug 25 17:10:10 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Heh. I'd almost expect the compiler to do that for me. If I'm using rationals, I probably care more about being correct than being fast. ;)
Tue Aug 25 17:11:32 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: well it would :-). I am thinking from the perspective of an implementor
Tue Aug 25 17:16:27 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: anyhow maybe i will spend a few hours fiddling with fluffos hacks
Tue Aug 25 17:29:34 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: what's with all these commercials lately that start out, "<insert state> residents:" Is this to make the commercial more "personal"? Yeah, they're talking to *me*... or maybe one of the other 6.5 million people who live here.
Tue Aug 25 17:35:03 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Curse you! They like you better... There's 10.0 million other people in my state. :(
Tue Aug 25 17:36:00 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Then again, that was in 2008... half of those people have probably moved elsewhere due to our 30% unemployment rate. :)
Tue Aug 25 17:36:55 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: 15% officially collecting unemployment, which means at least that many that are no longer doing so (and thus don't count in the statistics).
Tue Aug 25 17:38:37 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Yeah, for those of you not in the US, when we report unemployment figures, we're only reporting those who are still collecting benefits. That doesn't count people who had part time jobs, left voluntarily, or have been unemployed longer than 6 months.
Tue Aug 25 17:46:14 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Ah, I'm old so I forgot there was such a time. *grin*
Tue Aug 25 17:47:37 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: For the record, I fall into the > 6 months category... not much demand for perl/unix/postgresql experts here in corn country. Also why I need to get off my butt and teach myself .NET
Tue Aug 25 17:49:01 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: probably not a lot of headhunters to help with a search there either?
Tue Aug 25 17:50:24 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Not really... they all want to offer me jobs in Detroit (I'm on the other side of the state). I said if I'm going to move, I'm moving to California/Arizona/Texas/Hawaii... far far away from snow.
Tue Aug 25 17:51:20 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: If I thought I could learn Japanese, I guess there are jobs in Hawaii for folks who can speak Japanese and English.
Tue Aug 25 17:52:04 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: heh. I guess I have the advantage of living near Boston. plenty of tech jobs there. too bad I'd rather move back south.
Tue Aug 25 17:52:51 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: Crat, I think he meant for business purposes, not just to better understand porns.
Tue Aug 25 17:53:15 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Cool, I'll set up a tent on part of your beachfront property then and pay for my "rent" with fresh fish. *grin*
Tue Aug 25 17:56:07 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i have no idea how you guys pick up orc so fast
Tue Aug 25 17:56:38 2009
[dchat]
Kalinash@Fire and Ice: i need to learn to say, "Obama will kill us all"
Tue Aug 25 17:59:28 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: http://search.cpan.org/~mschwern/Lingua-tlhInganHol-yIghun-20090601/lib/Lingua/tlhInganHol/yIghun.pm
Tue Aug 25 18:11:28 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: http://search.cpan.org/~grep/Acme-Yoda-0.02/lib/Acme/Yoda.pm
Wed Aug 26 05:02:43 2009
[dchat]
Tricky@Rock the Halo: "...forest for all the trees" -- must have drunk just enough to come with that metaphor.
Wed Aug 26 05:03:42 2009
[dchat]
Tricky@Rock the Halo: Must have been the comment about him being a carpenter that helped.
Wed Aug 26 16:36:44 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i'm very disappointed that the wiki page on kennewick man does not point out that he is obviously jean luc picard
Fri Aug 28 03:57:50 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: just watched a Dolph Lundgren (sp) movie. Not sure I'll ever be the same.
Fri Aug 28 04:02:33 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: only one thats kinda decent is universal soldier
Fri Aug 28 04:03:35 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: everything else is like watching a beached whale
Fri Aug 28 04:03:40 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: I'm pretty sure calling it "decent" is a cruelty to decent movies everywhere.
Fri Aug 28 04:05:10 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: but, for example, The Punisher, the one with lundgren
Fri Aug 28 04:05:41 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it was like sitting through 2 hours of lugubrious chanting in sumerian
Fri Aug 28 04:08:07 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: I'm not the sort that insists that more is better (I still feel occasional anger that all books must now be 500 pages. What was wrong with 200-300?) But it seems to me that 2-ish hours is about right for a movie.
Fri Aug 28 04:09:05 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: those extra 200 pages don't get you more story. they just get you crap that should have been edited out...
Fri Aug 28 04:10:02 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: then again there was that lotr with 30 minutes of a movie ending
Fri Aug 28 04:10:26 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i remember at some point deciding it HAD to be an intentional joke
Fri Aug 28 04:13:11 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: well it would get to a point of emotional resolution, fade out...you expect the credits...
Fri Aug 28 04:14:53 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: oh. well, pretty sure it is. just be happy that in the movie they fixed the 'endless crap' aspect of when the fellowship is broken and sam and frodo embark on their boring scrabble through the wastelands.
Fri Aug 28 04:16:00 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: one of my names comes from the book, and I still don't pretend to like that part.
Fri Aug 28 04:16:04 2009
[dchat]
Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i can also be happy dolph lungren was't in it
Fri Aug 28 05:15:14 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: hm. Vista just popped up a "Solve Problems on Your Computer" window. Under "Problems", it said, "No problems found." Under "Solutions", there was a long list of things it wanted to do.
Fri Aug 28 14:37:00 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: at least it asks me if I want to fix problems that don't exist?
Fri Aug 28 14:48:50 2009
[dchat]
Aidil@GurbaDev2: well, yes.. but thats still better then it fixing them without asking.
Fri Aug 28 14:51:50 2009
[dchat]
Aidil@GurbaDev2: I mean, Windows doing all kinds of stuff without telling you about it isn't exactly unheard of..
Fri Aug 28 14:52:09 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: I guess I'm thinking if the window says, "If it ain't broke..." the only button at the bottom should be "don't fix it."
Fri Aug 28 14:53:06 2009
[dchat]
Aidil@GurbaDev2: the one issue with that line of thought is that you expect windows to make sense.
Fri Aug 28 14:55:56 2009
[dchat]
Hamlet@WWC: ha! Staples description: "The majority of this service is compromised of Windows Active Directory." Freudian? I think so.
Fri Aug 28 19:13:42 2009
[dchat]
Damouze@Way of the Force: I always thought it was Anakin Skywalker :P
Fri Aug 28 19:18:26 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Just remember Crat, it was the cat's fault for nudging you while typing the channel name. *grin*
Fri Aug 28 19:19:31 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Hmmm, my cat is currently doing his job.. keeping the laser printer warm.
Fri Aug 28 19:19:49 2009
[dchat]
Damouze@Way of the Force: Are you sure it's not the other way around? :P
Fri Aug 28 19:20:50 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Yeah, the printer's turned off... but it's behind my flat-panel monitor so he can sit there and command the desk, and most of the room. :)
Fri Aug 28 19:21:22 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: It used to be the spot my 19" CRT occupied, which I'm sure did keep him warm.
Fri Aug 28 19:22:19 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: Now that I think of it, he was a pretty small kitten when I replaced it, so maybe he didn't get to bask in the radiation.
Fri Aug 28 19:26:03 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: it doesnt seem to follow orders when i try to write anything to disk
Fri Aug 28 22:15:24 2009
[dchat]
Quixadhal@Bloodlines: I'm too old for tests, those are for young punks who haven't enjoyed the workforce yet.
Sat Aug 29 16:16:46 2009
[dchat]
Tim@Revenge of the Darlics: this stargate continuum movie is pretty crap
Sat Aug 29 20:23:09 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: emm probably pointless exercise but i am rewriting one of the fluffos files in C++
Sat Aug 29 20:24:48 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: wonder if i should try the same for the contrib parser or make something similar to the parse_string idea too
Sat Aug 29 20:30:53 2009
[dchat]
Aidil@GurbaDev2: hmm. theres some party going on in the neighborhood.. with live music, and a singer who can't sing..
Sat Aug 29 20:34:53 2009
[dchat]
Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: i did look over some of the parse_string code
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