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Thu Jun 18 01:53:00 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: have you created your new char? 
Thu Jun 18 01:53:03 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Didn't bother checking. Hehe. 
Thu Jun 18 01:53:13 2009 [dchat] Wolvesbane@Dungeons of Daggerith: I'm totally new at all of this. I'm jsut a builder and a writer of books. 
Thu Jun 18 01:53:19 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: new. char. please. 
Thu Jun 18 01:55:40 2009 [dchat] Wolvesbane@Dead Souls Dev: well that sucks 
Thu Jun 18 01:55:44 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: wussat 
Thu Jun 18 01:56:04 2009 [dchat] Wolvesbane@Dead Souls Dev: I can't even log in now. Beautiful 
Thu Jun 18 01:56:08 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: right 
Thu Jun 18 01:56:15 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: so, probably not a firewall thing 
Thu Jun 18 01:56:20 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: ...That could be a problem. 
Thu Jun 18 01:56:22 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: go into log/ 
Thu Jun 18 01:56:29 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: (in the shell obviously) 
Thu Jun 18 01:56:35 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and tail runtime 
Thu Jun 18 01:58:31 2009 [dchat] Wolvesbane@Dead Souls Dev: I'd give you the codes if I knew what you needed. I have a shell email here  but I dont' know the first thing about that stuff. 
Thu Jun 18 01:59:04 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i think that given the information you've shared with me publicly and privately, your best bet is indeed to start over 
Thu Jun 18 01:59:12 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: following the instructions very carefully 
Thu Jun 18 01:59:33 2009 [dchat] Wolvesbane@Dead Souls Dev: ok 
Thu Jun 18 02:01:02 2009 [dchat] Wolvesbane@Dead Souls Dev: sucks, but it could be a fact i have to accept. 
Thu Jun 18 02:01:17 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it's not shameful to join someone else's project 
Thu Jun 18 02:01:47 2009 [dchat] Wolvesbane@Dead Souls Dev: and I'm doing all of this freehand, without any prior knowledge. I'm still looking for a instructor in mudconnector. 
Thu Jun 18 02:02:19 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i think that the best way to learn is to join an existing team 
Thu Jun 18 02:02:34 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: your payment to them for helping you learn is your contribution to their mud 
Thu Jun 18 02:02:41 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: that's usually how this sort of thing works 
Thu Jun 18 02:03:26 2009 [dchat] Wolvesbane@Dead Souls Dev: I really like your code. But the only person that invited me in was on a MUX/MOO combination, and nothing like LPC. 
Thu Jun 18 02:04:02 2009 [dchat] Wolvesbane@Dead Souls Dev: I fully agree. I guess I'll just have them shut this one down, and save my money. 
Thu Jun 18 02:05:31 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Well, I might be willing to teach you the little I know. I could always use some company. Kind of learning myself, though. 
Thu Jun 18 02:07:33 2009 [dchat] Wolvesbane@Dead Souls Dev: even if it is only building rooms and minor things. Learning at the beginning is difficult but I'm more than happy to learn. 
Thu Jun 18 02:08:13 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: My functional knowledge of the lib is rather limited as I've been mostly doing lib coding, but I can teach you LPC. At least the simpler parts. 
Thu Jun 18 02:09:15 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Take a look at my thread in dead souls chat if you want to know both what kind of stupid mistakes I tend to make, and what my level of knowledge is like. 
Thu Jun 18 02:09:57 2009 [dchat] Taffyd@Discworld: One of my fellow admins, Drakkos, has written a large number of documents about MUDs and LPc. They're fairly Discworld specific in places, but you might want to read them anyway: http://www.monkeys-at-keyboards.com/ 
Thu Jun 18 02:10:21 2009 [dchat] Wolvesbane@Dead Souls Dev: cool 
Thu Jun 18 02:10:59 2009 [dchat] Taffyd@Discworld: although it looks like spam bots have cracked his forums;p 
Thu Jun 18 02:11:19 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Well, that's a shame. 
Thu Jun 18 02:14:06 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii winces at the discworld coding standard. 
Thu Jun 18 02:14:25 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: 2 space indent... required { } block around a single statement... 
Thu Jun 18 02:14:51 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@Discworld: because of the lack of EventCapitalizationMakesGreatUseOfSpaceWhenYouWantLongNames() ? 
Thu Jun 18 02:15:21 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: I like using {}s around a single statement, personally. 
Thu Jun 18 02:15:28 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: I'm an underscore convert, actually :-P 
Thu Jun 18 02:16:42 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: I use both, unfortunately. CamelCase for functions and under_scores for variables. Does that make me a bad person? 
Thu Jun 18 02:18:34 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@Discworld: it's not about good or bad. it's about right and wrong. 
Thu Jun 18 02:20:32 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: Meh. As long as you don't go around indenting with two spaces :-) 
Thu Jun 18 02:20:37 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@Discworld: two is the proper quantity. 
Thu Jun 18 02:20:39 2009 [dchat] Taffyd@Discworld: I always use 4 
Thu Jun 18 02:20:42 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: 5 is right out 
Thu Jun 18 02:20:44 2009 [dchat] Taffyd@Discworld: we have this ungoing holy war between 2, 3 and 4. 
Thu Jun 18 02:20:50 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: I prefer tabs but I tend to accept them as a lost cause. 
Thu Jun 18 02:21:14 2009 [dchat] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: actually i liek using a page of whitespace between adjacent tokens. 
Thu Jun 18 02:21:17 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: If the world used tabs then we could all set our personal tab widths... 
Thu Jun 18 02:21:52 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: True evil is mixed spaces and tabs. 
Thu Jun 18 02:22:09 2009 [dchat] Silenus@Dead Souls Dev: it makes it so i can inflate my line counts without wasting ink if i want to print something out. 
Thu Jun 18 02:24:16 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: Hmm... what is that language that is all whitespace? 
Thu Jun 18 02:24:47 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: You mean whitespace? The esoteric language that is entirely composed of spaces and tabs? 
Thu Jun 18 02:24:53 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: Ah. 'whitespace', strangely enough. Anyway, that saves ink... 
Thu Jun 18 02:25:13 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: ...I wouldn't suggest printing it out. Hehe. 
Thu Jun 18 02:25:33 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: It would be hard to start an indent war over it, at least. 
Thu Jun 18 02:25:44 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: That's true. 
Thu Jun 18 03:30:07 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: so why is it, if I just loaded the dishwasher, that my kitchen is still such a wreck?  Is there someone convenient to blame? 
Thu Jun 18 03:30:23 2009 [dchat] Confuto@AnticaDEV: The government. 
Thu Jun 18 03:30:43 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@Discworld: those monsters! 
Thu Jun 18 03:30:47 2009 [dchat] Wolvesbane@Kar Unol: probably the hen_weigh 
Thu Jun 18 03:30:54 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: threads 
Thu Jun 18 03:35:47 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: /thread 
Thu Jun 18 16:01:53 2009 [dchat] Detah@Dead Souls Dev: good morning 
Thu Jun 18 16:02:00 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: sup 
Thu Jun 18 16:02:22 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i think the new screenlock command should fix yer problem from yesterday 
Thu Jun 18 16:02:26 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: give it a shot 
Thu Jun 18 16:03:30 2009 [dchat] Detah@Dead Souls Dev: I unchecked the NAWS box in zmud. since then not one resize. 
Thu Jun 18 16:03:36 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: ah 
Thu Jun 18 16:03:49 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: well that's good too then 
Thu Jun 18 16:04:01 2009 [dchat] Detah@Dead Souls Dev: I really went crazy trying to make it happen. Im convinced its fixed. 
Thu Jun 18 16:04:19 2009 [dchat] Detah@Dead Souls Dev: oww. already added to the env output too. fancy. 
Thu Jun 18 16:04:36 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: this aint no half steppin outfit 
Thu Jun 18 16:04:49 2009 [dchat] Detah@Dead Souls Dev: I love that command. 
Thu Jun 18 16:05:31 2009 [dchat] Detah@Dead Souls Dev: did you make the change in /lib/interface.c? 
Thu Jun 18 16:05:40 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: think so 
Thu Jun 18 16:05:51 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i had a lot of guinness yesterday 
Thu Jun 18 16:06:00 2009 [dchat] Detah@Dead Souls Dev: I know. 
Thu Jun 18 16:07:23 2009 [dchat] Aidil@Way of the Force laughs. 
Thu Jun 18 16:07:39 2009 [dchat] Detah@Dead Souls Dev: cool. that was an easy fix. 
Thu Jun 18 16:07:50 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: yerp 
Thu Jun 18 16:35:52 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: I SAID the fix should be in the lib :P 
Thu Jun 18 20:36:17 2009 [dchat] Detah@WWC: is png image format lossless? 
Thu Jun 18 20:36:30 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: I think so. 
Thu Jun 18 20:36:44 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: yes, it is.  it was the royalty-free replacement for gif. 
Thu Jun 18 20:37:01 2009 [dchat] Detah@WWC: k. thanks. 
Thu Jun 18 20:37:44 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: anybody here good at cracking into unix systems? 
Thu Jun 18 20:38:03 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: ...Why? 
Thu Jun 18 20:38:23 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i'd like to ask them to white hat something for me 
Thu Jun 18 20:38:44 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol nods. 
Thu Jun 18 20:40:18 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: white hat... next thing you know, someone has strapped some C4 into your computer case and have uploaded a virus that makes you itch to press the <delete> key. 
Thu Jun 18 20:41:15 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: well ysee 
Thu Jun 18 20:41:20 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i found this thingy 
Thu Jun 18 20:41:23 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it's so neat 
Thu Jun 18 20:41:34 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Very descriptive. 
Thu Jun 18 20:41:44 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it lets you access things like terminals and stuff in yer browser 
Thu Jun 18 20:42:03 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: basically letting yer browser be a term, but heres the beauty 
Thu Jun 18 20:42:15 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it can go thru proxies n stuff, cuz its ajax 
Thu Jun 18 20:42:26 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: no additional connection, just the browser 
Thu Jun 18 20:42:31 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Oooh. 
Thu Jun 18 20:42:35 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it's sweeet 
Thu Jun 18 20:42:39 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: works real good too 
Thu Jun 18 20:42:49 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: I've been looking for something like that. 
Thu Jun 18 20:42:56 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: but i'm a lil ocncerned about security 
Thu Jun 18 20:43:02 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: due to the way it works 
Thu Jun 18 20:43:14 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: so i want osmeone to try to white hat crack it for me 
Thu Jun 18 20:43:25 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: but i odnt wanna like, announce the thing to the world 
Thu Jun 18 20:43:52 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Wish I could help. I'm not cracker, unfortunately. 
Thu Jun 18 20:44:11 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: *no 
Thu Jun 18 20:44:25 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: last time I knew anything about cracking systems was back before sun invented the term "Solaris"... 
Thu Jun 18 20:44:52 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: I was pretty good at hacking root on a SunOS box, though :p 
Thu Jun 18 20:45:21 2009 [dchat] Tique@Discworld: hacking to root or hacking as root? :D 
Thu Jun 18 20:45:58 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: ha!  with the latter being the equivalent of a toddler on a tricycle calling himself a "biker"? 
Thu Jun 18 20:46:20 2009 [dchat] Tique@Discworld: well, you didn't say ;) 
Thu Jun 18 20:47:56 2009 [dchat] Detah@Dead Souls Dev: I can hack on a toddler on a tricycle on root. 
Thu Jun 18 20:51:29 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: You totally should announce it to the world. 
Thu Jun 18 20:52:38 2009 [dchat] Detah@Dead Souls Dev: I just did. it is now catalogged and housed in the Library of Congress. er, at least on Tricky's server. hehe 
Thu Jun 18 20:54:44 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: dang just missed you 
Thu Jun 18 21:58:09 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: im grumpy. that thing was awesome but too insecure 
Thu Jun 18 21:58:19 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: im stuck with the poopy clunky java app 
Thu Jun 18 21:58:26 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: >:| 
Thu Jun 18 21:58:48 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Hm. 
Thu Jun 18 21:58:53 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: How insecure is it? 
Thu Jun 18 21:59:05 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: What was it? Ajax telnet? 
Thu Jun 18 21:59:08 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: ya 
Thu Jun 18 21:59:14 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Like, Win98 insecure? 
Thu Jun 18 21:59:19 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: What was the security issue? 
Thu Jun 18 21:59:21 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: pretty much requires you to run telnet inside the host 
Thu Jun 18 21:59:23 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: how do you know it was insecure? 
Thu Jun 18 21:59:31 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: cuz u have to run telnet from inside the host 
Thu Jun 18 21:59:44 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: Well, yeah. Since Ajax can't run around making random tcp connections. 
Thu Jun 18 21:59:52 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: all anyone has to do is figure out how to crack outside that 
Thu Jun 18 21:59:58 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and while i dont know how 
Thu Jun 18 22:00:12 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: im pretty sure lots of black hats do 
Thu Jun 18 22:00:47 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: Hmm. I see the argument. Run it in a vm if you want to be paranoid? Then firewall the VM in an extremely restrictive way. 
Thu Jun 18 22:00:58 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: thats what im debating 
Thu Jun 18 22:01:06 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: I wish (maybe it does) iptables would let you firewall based on process UID. 
Thu Jun 18 22:01:09 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: still thiking it over 
Thu Jun 18 22:04:01 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: Ooooh, it does! Therefore, assuming linux, you could use --uid-owner for iptables and do something like restrict the ajax server daemon to binding to a totally separate ip address. 
Thu Jun 18 22:04:51 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: (I take it your main fear is something somewhere saying 127.0.0.1 is whitelisted) 
Thu Jun 18 22:05:05 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: hmmmmnoo 
Thu Jun 18 22:05:16 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: hang on lemme show ya 
Thu Jun 18 22:05:37 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: http://anyterm.org/ 
Thu Jun 18 22:06:25 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: you run their daemon bound to some port. then you direct your browser to that server and port. the daemon then fires up whatever command you specified is to be fired up, and you have yourself a happy little term 
Thu Jun 18 22:06:53 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: in the case of a mud, the command might be something like telnet localhost 6666 -e "" 
Thu Jun 18 22:07:09 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: ...So you can run any command, theoretically? 
Thu Jun 18 22:07:16 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: (the -e "" disables the escape, so people cant go total lame) 
Thu Jun 18 22:07:30 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: yes any command 
Thu Jun 18 22:07:39 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: That does sound... dangerous. 
Thu Jun 18 22:07:49 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: but a given connection is limited to the command specified at start time by the daemon 
Thu Jun 18 22:08:01 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: so random joe cant just fire up ssh 
Thu Jun 18 22:08:12 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: he will only fire up the command line i specified for that port 
Thu Jun 18 22:08:15 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: but even so 
Thu Jun 18 22:08:18 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: you get the idea 
Thu Jun 18 22:08:28 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Hm. 
Thu Jun 18 22:08:31 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol nods. 
Thu Jun 18 22:08:35 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: sure you can run it with false shell and no homedit 
Thu Jun 18 22:08:48 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: but do i really want randome joes showin up running commands inside my box 
Thu Jun 18 22:08:59 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: no matter *ho* carefully crafted by me 
Thu Jun 18 22:09:04 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: *how* 
Thu Jun 18 22:09:29 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: That's a shame, because that sounds really useful. 
Thu Jun 18 22:09:35 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it's so awesome 
Thu Jun 18 22:09:37 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: Uhh, if random joe can't pass parameters to the command, surely that isn't a problem? 
Thu Jun 18 22:09:42 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: heh 
Thu Jun 18 22:09:49 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: why don't you fix it?  or write an ajax telnet app vfs an ajax shell app 
Thu Jun 18 22:10:11 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: ideysus, in a world where no telnet servers ever got overflowed, there would be no prob 
Thu Jun 18 22:10:18 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: Unless I misunderstand and the command does not take static arguments. 
Thu Jun 18 22:10:39 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: Ah. That kind of paranoia :-) 
Thu Jun 18 22:10:41 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i have to trust that the telnet program cant be cracked out of 
Thu Jun 18 22:10:46 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: not sure i trust that 
Thu Jun 18 22:10:54 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: You are running mudos... 
Thu Jun 18 22:11:11 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: well no need to drop my pants ALL the way down 
Thu Jun 18 22:11:29 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Yay! Mental image! 
Thu Jun 18 22:11:31 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: You already did. You are running mudos. :-P 
Thu Jun 18 22:12:09 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: I mean... chroot a netcat process or something... that is going to be far, far, far more secure than mudos here... 
Thu Jun 18 22:12:31 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: yeah im thinking something with belt and suspenders, if i were to do it 
Thu Jun 18 22:12:34 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: if it has soruce, rewrite it so that it uses a network socket instead of a terminal 
Thu Jun 18 22:13:04 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i dont know C :( 
Thu Jun 18 22:13:07 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: That way you eliminate the problem, and it can only connect to your session 
Thu Jun 18 22:13:09 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: is it written in C? 
Thu Jun 18 22:13:12 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: ya 
Thu Jun 18 22:13:20 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: how much $$$ is it worth to you? 
Thu Jun 18 22:13:28 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: zero 
Thu Jun 18 22:13:38 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: yeah, that's what its worth to me too 
Thu Jun 18 22:13:54 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: if it were a big enough problem to solve with money i'da already handled it 
Thu Jun 18 22:14:17 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: I'd like to see this made usable. 
Thu Jun 18 22:14:23 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it's soo sweet 
Thu Jun 18 22:14:30 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: But alas, the poor student... 
Thu Jun 18 22:14:41 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: check out the demo on that page 
Thu Jun 18 22:14:43 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: If it is that great then just make some form of sandbox. VM. 
Thu Jun 18 22:14:58 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: Bastet is cool. 
Thu Jun 18 22:15:44 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: if im gonna recode something i'll prolly recode the java client im using to be less lame 
Thu Jun 18 22:15:57 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: im not coding something to fix security problems i dont really understand 
Thu Jun 18 22:16:20 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: I'd like a decent Java client, too. 
Thu Jun 18 22:16:23 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol smiles. 
Thu Jun 18 22:16:33 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: yeah the ds one is a bit..uh..primitive 
Thu Jun 18 22:16:44 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: The nice bit to ajax though is it will get around almost all firewalls. 
Thu Jun 18 22:16:50 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: yep 
Thu Jun 18 22:16:55 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: it's sooo sweet 
Thu Jun 18 22:17:03 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol frowns. 
Thu Jun 18 22:17:07 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: So sad. 
Thu Jun 18 22:17:10 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: Bah. If it is that great, why haven't you installed it in a VM yet? 
Thu Jun 18 22:17:34 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: well because it's too insecure 
Thu Jun 18 22:17:43 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: You think it is going to break out of a VM? 
Thu Jun 18 22:18:01 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: You've got a point, Id. 
Thu Jun 18 22:18:07 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: you think i want someone with a rooted vm in my host? 
Thu Jun 18 22:18:19 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Does it have to be root? 
Thu Jun 18 22:18:27 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: I'll hack it to just use telnet directly if you ban Duuk. 
Thu Jun 18 22:18:37 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Haha. 
Thu Jun 18 22:19:23 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: what happened to the flash app? 
Thu Jun 18 22:19:33 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: Okay. So first they have to overflow telnet and manage to get a local account. Then they have to do a privilege escalation to root in the VM. Then they have to find a flaw in the virtualisation software and break into the system itself. 
Thu Jun 18 22:19:56 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: I see the argument. They only have to find 3 zero day flaws. 
Thu Jun 18 22:20:08 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: did'nt the guy from hypervm just blow himself because of a vulnerabiluity in his VM software? 
Thu Jun 18 22:20:15 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: blow himself away even 
Thu Jun 18 22:20:25 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: no, he hung himself i think 
Thu Jun 18 22:22:41 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: ok so im paranoid 
Thu Jun 18 22:22:52 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: How much effort would it take to hack it to use telnet? 
Thu Jun 18 22:23:07 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: It sounds like that would be ideal. 
Thu Jun 18 22:23:27 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: as to the flash app, i have a problem trusting the author 
Thu Jun 18 22:23:44 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: and since i have trouble trustin gthe author, i have trouble trusting his compiled app 
Thu Jun 18 22:27:06 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Hellmonger, you didn't answer my question: How much effort would it take to hack it to use telnet directly? 
Thu Jun 18 22:27:36 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i musta missed somethin. hellmongers guna hack wut? 
Thu Jun 18 22:28:04 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: "Hellmonger@Trilogy <dchat> I'll hack it to just use telnet directly if you ban Duuk." not sure if that was entirely a joke or not. 
Thu Jun 18 22:28:32 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: o 
Thu Jun 18 22:28:49 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: musta been, i dont even know what he meant other than "ban duuk" 
Thu Jun 18 22:28:59 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: But even if the process has its own telnet that is just as hackable. Probably more so since existing telnet applications are mature and security sensitive. 
Thu Jun 18 22:29:30 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii does a security audit on Cratylus. 
Thu Jun 18 22:29:38 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Couldn't you just use an existing telnet library? 
Thu Jun 18 22:29:43 2009 [dchat] Ideysus@ShadowMUDii: See this cat 6 cable going into the box? Big hole. 
Thu Jun 18 22:29:58 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: heh 
Thu Jun 18 22:30:09 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: ok maybe im too paranoid 
Thu Jun 18 22:30:16 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i'll consider the vm thing 
Fri Jun 19 05:05:09 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Anyone know of a trick to keep an sftp connection from idling out? Nautilus does not like it when its connections idle out, apparently. 
Fri Jun 19 05:23:50 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: tcp keepalives? 
Fri Jun 19 05:24:29 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: How would that work? As I understand it would technically be a separate connection, right? 
Fri Jun 19 05:24:49 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: maybe a setting in /ets/ssh/ 
Fri Jun 19 05:27:06 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Hm. Not seeing anything in ssh_config. ConnectTimeout 0 means it shouldn't time out, right? 
Fri Jun 19 05:27:24 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: dunno then. time for docs maybe 
Fri Jun 19 05:27:56 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Hm. Maybe I'll just call my ISP and complain. 
Fri Jun 19 05:28:07 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: could be yer router 
Fri Jun 19 05:28:12 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: linksys, right? 
Fri Jun 19 05:28:21 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: 54 something or other? 
Fri Jun 19 05:28:30 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: notorious for 5 minute idle timeout 
Fri Jun 19 05:28:40 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Really? 
Fri Jun 19 05:28:44 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: yep 
Fri Jun 19 05:29:09 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Well, that's interesting. I did a little googling and didn't turn anything up. 
Fri Jun 19 05:29:32 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: bleeme, seen it half a dozen times, no exaggeration 
Fri Jun 19 05:29:38 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: that specific router 
Fri Jun 19 05:29:41 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: Well, thanks. 
Fri Jun 19 05:29:44 2009 [dchat] Tahin@Kar Unol: That explains it. 
Fri Jun 19 15:22:27 2009 [dchat] Elixir@Arnica: u like my post haha 
Fri Jun 19 15:23:54 2009 [dchat] Ploo@Arnica: o 
Fri Jun 19 15:26:13 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i no rite 
Fri Jun 19 16:35:28 2009 [dchat] Detah@Dead Souls Dev: good morning 
Fri Jun 19 16:36:14 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@Discworld: just barely! 
Fri Jun 19 21:00:05 2009 [dchat] Detah@Dead Souls Dev: well, this is the least chatter day in the history of ds, isnt it. 
Fri Jun 19 21:21:54 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: que? 
Fri Jun 19 21:41:23 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: chatter is what you want? 
Fri Jun 19 21:41:43 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole chatters 
Sun Jun 21 01:29:16 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: I am uncomfortable with this silence. 
Sun Jun 21 01:31:06 2009 [dchat] Echnos@Dead_Souls_echnos: :O 
Sun Jun 21 01:31:10 2009 [dchat] Echnos@Dead_Souls_echnos: who 
Sun Jun 21 01:32:00 2009 [dchat] Echnos@Dead_Souls_echnos: Sorry, mistype. 
Sun Jun 21 01:33:19 2009 [dchat] Haldir@The Land of Threlld: Hi 
Sun Jun 21 01:36:50 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Oh, hello. 
Sun Jun 21 01:37:13 2009 [dchat] Echnos@Dead_Souls_echnos: So these are all connected, huh? 
Sun Jun 21 01:37:39 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: tried the 'mudlist' command? 
Sun Jun 21 01:37:54 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: all of THEM are on the intermud. 
Sun Jun 21 01:38:22 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: and about 25% of them even have active people logged in, who talk in here from time to time. 
Sun Jun 21 01:38:42 2009 [dchat] Echnos@Dead_Souls_echnos: Coodchat Cool to hear 
Sun Jun 21 01:39:06 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: I know :) 
Sun Jun 21 01:39:48 2009 [dchat] Echnos@Dead_Souls_echnos: I need to get my name and whatnot out of the defaults 
Sun Jun 21 01:40:19 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: just launch admintool. 
Sun Jun 21 01:41:17 2009 [dchat] Echnos@Dead_Souls_echnos: Thanks! 
Sun Jun 21 01:41:38 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Just doin' my job... 
Sun Jun 21 02:59:52 2009 [dchat] Haldir@The Land of Threlld: is it necessary to keep all the rooms that come with Dead Souls? 
Sun Jun 21 03:00:05 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@Discworld: failure to do so will void the warranty. 
Sun Jun 21 03:04:01 2009 [dchat] Haldir@The Land of Threlld: Yes, I just found that one 
Sun Jun 21 03:04:15 2009 [dchat] Haldir@The Land of Threlld: Sorry for not looking earlier 
Sun Jun 21 18:15:42 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: hmmm.  are electronics really not too sensitive to being fed the wrong voltage?  I just discovered that my cable internet adapter wants 12V DC and it's attached to a power brick that supplies 9V DC. 
Sun Jun 21 18:16:22 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: it prolly has a 5V or 3.3V stabiliser inside anyway. 
Sun Jun 21 18:16:30 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: 12V is just more economical. 
Sun Jun 21 18:16:36 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: on input. 
Sun Jun 21 18:16:48 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: what model? 
Sun Jun 21 18:16:57 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: so much for the WARNING in the documentation, eh? 
Sun Jun 21 18:17:11 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: webstar something... uh, dpc2100v2, I think. 
Sun Jun 21 18:17:16 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: wouldnt surprise me if yer shortening its life 
Sun Jun 21 18:17:37 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Still says webstar? heh, old one. Since two years they're Cisco. 
Sun Jun 21 18:17:44 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: the cable company claims it's obsolete already anyway.  Of course, their math is very suspect, but it'll certainly be obsolete soonish. 
Sun Jun 21 18:17:57 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: ive found that electronics that arent fed what they want sometimes wind up bricking oddly later 
Sun Jun 21 18:18:15 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: yeah, it's old, but it's MINE... paying a couple dollars a month to rent the newest model doesn't make sense. 
Sun Jun 21 18:18:43 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: I've got DPC2100R2 myself, might be ugly but Just Works. 
Sun Jun 21 18:19:00 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: especially since what the newest model gets me is from a theoretical 9mbps to 12 mbps.  Since the cable is only 6mbps... 
Sun Jun 21 18:19:50 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: bricking is no good.  I'll be swapping out power adapters... just as soon as my wife finishes her game anyway.  Cutting off the internet in the middle would probably get me in trouble! 
Sun Jun 21 18:20:03 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: :) 
Sun Jun 21 18:20:52 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: all this mystery began when I decided I wanted to try using my print server again... and couldn't find the adapter. 
Sun Jun 21 18:21:15 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: after extensive searching through many boxes, it turns out it's powering the cable thing.  feh. 
Sun Jun 21 18:21:44 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Depends on how the power is routed internally... but usually it's input -> fuse -> voltage stabiliser -> rest of the electronics... and modern low dropout stabs work correctly with as small differences like 0.75V. Most digital electronics is 5V or below, so... 
Sun Jun 21 18:22:26 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: prolly they use same model of power brick for other equipment too and that's why it's 12V. 
Sun Jun 21 18:22:29 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: you know, none of this would be as complicated if we just had DC coming into the house. 
Sun Jun 21 18:22:52 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Efficiency, Sir. DC dissipates/drops very easily. 
Sun Jun 21 18:23:08 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: I wasn't suggesting we do DC on the transmission lines. 
Sun Jun 21 18:23:30 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: why not convert it at the pole or in the basement, though?  And not have to have conversion in _every_ _single_ _device_ 
Sun Jun 21 18:23:36 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: And AC->DC conversion is extremely simple and cheap if done on the end. 
Sun Jun 21 18:23:55 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Because it'd drop on that small distance from the basement to the socket already. 
Sun Jun 21 18:24:29 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: have you ever worked in a DC environment? 
Sun Jun 21 18:24:36 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: I'm not sure that's true.  The final DC building in New York City was just converted recently.  How did they deal with the drop? 
Sun Jun 21 18:24:39 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: Before you go ahead and call it 'simpler' 
Sun Jun 21 18:24:57 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: Lots of household devices run on AC 
Sun Jun 21 18:25:09 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: there is only a DC conversion where required, like in solid state stuff. 
Sun Jun 21 18:25:18 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: your washing machine, your fans, your lightbulbs 
Sun Jun 21 18:25:25 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: all that runs off of mains current 
Sun Jun 21 18:25:34 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: the light bulbs don't care if it's ac or dc, do they? 
Sun Jun 21 18:25:43 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: CFL's definately do 
Sun Jun 21 18:25:54 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: I doubt normal lightbulbs care. 
Sun Jun 21 18:25:59 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: oh.  you said, "your light bulbs".  :P  mine have tungsten in them. 
Sun Jun 21 18:26:39 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: regardless, all of your heavy duty shit runs on AC, not DC 
Sun Jun 21 18:26:46 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: good point. 
Sun Jun 21 18:26:48 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: err, sorry 
Sun Jun 21 18:26:51 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: i don't think i'm allowed to swear on this line 
Sun Jun 21 18:27:26 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Well, really heavy duty stuff runs off 3-phase... 
Sun Jun 21 18:28:09 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: could always have conversion in the basement, but not for all lines. 
Sun Jun 21 18:29:33 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: when i build my compound, i'm going to have infrastructure for both ac and dc 
Sun Jun 21 18:29:38 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: What'd you say about that: a powerstrip-style device with a ac->dc transformer and dozen of those round-pin low power plugs? Either in one unified voltage or with 15/12/9/5V zones? 
Sun Jun 21 18:29:46 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC cheers Hellmonger. 
Sun Jun 21 18:30:30 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: yeah.  something like that!  poof.  no need for these dozens of bricks. 
Sun Jun 21 18:31:39 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: I mean, I was just looking and I have 6 bricks just under my desk.  seems absurd. 
Sun Jun 21 18:32:33 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: count the rest of the living room and you're up to 11. 
Sun Jun 21 18:32:53 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Quite a lot. 
Sun Jun 21 18:35:29 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: looks like basement or even power pole conversion could be realistic, if their "1 mile" statement is valid. 
Sun Jun 21 18:38:27 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Agreed. Now, how do you imagine that from the technical side? Two parallel power systems in one building? You'd have to agree on unified voltage, obtain different sockets so there will be no confusion... 
Sun Jun 21 18:39:39 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: well, forcing electronic makers to agree on a single voltage would be a good thing.  If I remember right (and I'm certainly no expert), dropping voltages in DC is easier than converting from AC to DC. 
Sun Jun 21 18:40:19 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: different sockets certainly.  and, yes, two parallel systems.  Sounds bad, but realistically most of us have at least three systems going in our houses anyway.  What's the big deal of adding a 4th? 
Sun Jun 21 18:40:24 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Yeah, you could eventually settle on 24VDC sockets, prolly. But that's a costly operation. 
Sun Jun 21 18:41:16 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: I vote for endpoint conversion. No changes to existing installation, no additional cost. 
Sun Jun 21 18:41:24 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: You mean like we do now? 
Sun Jun 21 18:41:37 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: you mean with a SINGLE converter just on the other side of the wall, right? 
Sun Jun 21 18:41:47 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Almost, just using ONE brick-ish transformer with many connectors. 
Sun Jun 21 18:41:50 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: instead of 6 bricks under the desk? 
Sun Jun 21 18:41:53 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Yep. 
Sun Jun 21 18:41:58 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: yeah.  that's certainly a valid option. 
Sun Jun 21 18:43:21 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: And believe me, i hate power bricks. I have one cable on the top of my desk because it was too short for normal way. 
Sun Jun 21 18:47:23 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: I wish the cords coming from my router weren't so heavy that the unbalanced the thing. 
Sun Jun 21 18:49:09 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: mine is mounted on the wall sockets-down. They can't pull it any lower than it is. 
Sun Jun 21 18:50:00 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: that sounds like a good idea.  maybe I'll make a little stand for mine and screw it into the stand. 
Sun Jun 21 19:03:27 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: maybe you should market and sell adapters 
Sun Jun 21 19:03:31 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: Delete your bricks! 
Sun Jun 21 19:05:54 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: all your bricks are belong to us? 
Sun Jun 21 19:06:27 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: oh, oh!  I have the company motto already!  "We Possessive That Which Others Without!" 
Sun Jun 21 19:07:17 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Hamlet Power Conversion, Inc.? 
Sun Jun 21 19:11:49 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: hmmm.  If I can get people to start calling the outlets "HPCs", I might have something! 
Sun Jun 21 19:12:31 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: think about how rich Robert Usb might be! 
Sun Jun 21 19:12:43 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev goes, "Heh heh, heh heh." 
Sun Jun 21 19:16:11 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: and, well, per-socket adjustable voltage would add to the cost. But you could tap a few power busses from the transformer, and put socket on them. So, a row of 12V, ones, another of 5V... deifferent models might provide different amount of sockets with different Vs. Sounds like a great business opportunity. 
Sun Jun 21 19:16:40 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: (plus the expensive adlustable Pro series). 
Sun Jun 21 19:16:47 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: woo 
Sun Jun 21 19:17:27 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: man, you might make MILLIONZ!!!1!!1111! 
Sun Jun 21 19:17:29 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: then I could go with a Basic Edition that prevents you from changing your wallpaper (or painting) 
Sun Jun 21 19:17:54 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: And annoying melody. 
Sun Jun 21 19:18:17 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: now all I have to do is hire that Cham-WOW! guy to do the marketing. 
Sun Jun 21 19:18:35 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: 'cause everybody loves a sleazy, poorly washed guy selling things. 
Sun Jun 21 19:19:01 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: :) 
Sun Jun 21 19:20:41 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: oh.  it's ShamWow. 
Sun Jun 21 19:21:34 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Heard enough. 
Sun Jun 21 19:22:08 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: see?  spokesman! 
Sun Jun 21 19:23:23 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: Remember that you can't transform DC voltage 
Sun Jun 21 19:23:35 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: Which means you have to tap the transformer before the rectifer 
Sun Jun 21 19:23:48 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: rectifier 
Sun Jun 21 19:24:12 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: which also means you need a rectifier for each unique voltage in use 
Sun Jun 21 19:24:47 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: you could just take a high DC voltage and drop it down with resisters and regulators. 
Sun Jun 21 19:24:58 2009 [dchat] Hellmonger@Trilogy: i dunno, i'm not really an EE 
Sun Jun 21 19:29:41 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: I wanted to go to electronic engineering... 
Sun Jun 21 19:29:58 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: but in the hindsight, i'd prolly get kicked out after first year. 
Sun Jun 21 19:35:48 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC shrugs. 
Sun Jun 21 19:36:23 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: the idea has merit.  I'm not the business-starting sort, though. 
Mon Jun 22 04:18:37 2009 [dchat] Shadyman@QuantumScape meuhs. 
Mon Jun 22 04:19:35 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@Final Realms: the lagmonster obeys no man nor wizard. 
Mon Jun 22 04:19:40 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@Final Realms: mis 
Mon Jun 22 04:20:01 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@Final Realms: although it's good to see that FR is sending again :P 
Mon Jun 22 07:16:47 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: I noticed FR connects to the *wpr router nowadays? 
Mon Jun 22 07:17:27 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: or did someone implement automatic router failover on FR? 
Mon Jun 22 12:49:44 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: yeah, apparenty someone did.  I'm none too thrilled with how well it functions, though 
Mon Jun 22 12:50:01 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: tends to get lost from time to tiem. 
Mon Jun 22 12:51:21 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: tie a bit of string to it? 
Mon Jun 22 12:52:00 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: sounds a good idea, but first we'll hae to pick which color and how long.  might take a while. 
Mon Jun 22 12:56:10 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: a cosmic string of infinite length, I think they're black 
Mon Jun 22 12:57:05 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: ah, but must they be?  We prefer festive colors. 
Mon Jun 22 12:58:50 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: I'm not sure if this helps http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/9310262 
Mon Jun 22 12:59:30 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: "flux-flux scattering using a multi-sheeted formalism" 
Mon Jun 22 13:00:40 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: see?  "that turns quarks into leopards..."   I knew there could be fun colors involved! 
Mon Jun 22 13:04:30 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: quantum leopards YIPE! 
Mon Jun 22 13:57:19 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: :) 
Mon Jun 22 14:00:39 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Won't that be OSX 10.-INF ? 
Mon Jun 22 14:00:47 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: hmm, what is the issue with FR and automatic router failover? From my observation it works, at least to the point that FR connected to *wpr when *i4 was down for a little bit a while ago. 
Mon Jun 22 14:01:03 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: hehe. 
Mon Jun 22 14:02:17 2009 [dchat] Hamlet@WWC: I think when it gets to the end of its list, it gives up.  permanently. 
Mon Jun 22 14:03:09 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: ah hmm. thats not good indeed. 
Mon Jun 22 14:14:09 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: write a ressurecting daemon 
Mon Jun 22 14:41:51 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: hehe. 
Mon Jun 22 16:11:25 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: hmm... anybody knows how much weight can be safely put on a lenovo M51 8142 desktop? 
Mon Jun 22 16:11:42 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: science says, "try it" 
Mon Jun 22 16:12:05 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: My wallet says "No experimenting!" 
Mon Jun 22 16:12:23 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: about a ton 
Mon Jun 22 16:12:31 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: otherwise i'd do it and not bother you. 
Mon Jun 22 16:12:33 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev goes, "Heh heh, heh heh." 
Mon Jun 22 16:12:41 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: honest ;) 
Mon Jun 22 16:12:50 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Srsly. 
Mon Jun 22 16:12:56 2009 [dchat] Newt@ShadowMUDii Dev: somewhere this side of sumo 
Mon Jun 22 16:13:03 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: you aren't bothering us just coz you love to? 
Mon Jun 22 16:13:21 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: This time, no. 
Mon Jun 22 16:15:01 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: See, those new-fangled "LCD" thingies are quite lightweight. But the only monitor i have free atm is a 20kg CRT. 
Mon Jun 22 16:15:23 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: and i'm not sure if that case can handle it. 
Mon Jun 22 16:15:27 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: ah 
Mon Jun 22 16:15:30 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: yeah it'll hold that, 'd say, proly take sittin gon which is ~80kg 
Mon Jun 22 16:15:33 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: that's not just about weight 
Mon Jun 22 16:15:42 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: that's also about weight distribution 
Mon Jun 22 16:15:56 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Yup. 
Mon Jun 22 16:16:05 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: you could be directing the weight on an area ill suited for it 
Mon Jun 22 16:16:28 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i actually have one of these Sun 21" monstrosities 
Mon Jun 22 16:16:37 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: stupidly, ridiculously heavy 
Mon Jun 22 16:16:54 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: mmmmm Sun 21" monitors they run at 100kHz iirc 
Mon Jun 22 16:17:01 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i dont think i'd dare put it on a flat desktop pc 
Mon Jun 22 16:17:30 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: would sit on a sun pizza box no worries, moulded aluminium cases!"!! 
Mon Jun 22 16:17:35 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: kHz is for Hsync, and not sure if 100 is much... it's about the value for 1280x1024 methinks. 
Mon Jun 22 16:17:38 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: heh 
Mon Jun 22 16:17:48 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Hz is vsync and the refresh rate you're usually talking about. 
Mon Jun 22 16:17:54 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: er yeah I meant Hz 
Mon Jun 22 16:18:14 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: which is all obviosuly totally on-topic with the weight question of course 
Mon Jun 22 16:18:36 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: im sorry, that was harsh. i'm still in killmode from a recent troll thread 
Mon Jun 22 16:18:51 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Nah, not your fault. I asked then drifted off topic. 
Mon Jun 22 16:18:59 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: i should remember to flip the selector lever from kill to stun 
Mon Jun 22 16:19:33 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Anyway, old desktops i saw have a thick metal bar in the center of the area. This one doesn't. 
Mon Jun 22 16:19:47 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Oh? I hope it's not microwave-based. 
Mon Jun 22 16:20:03 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Then the stun setting will kill half of the targets and don't do anything to the other half. 
Mon Jun 22 16:20:06 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: naw, damage type DRAMA 
Mon Jun 22 16:20:40 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Result = 8388608 
Mon Jun 22 16:22:14 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: 3735928559 
Mon Jun 22 16:25:10 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: you? in a troll thread? drama? 
Mon Jun 22 16:25:22 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub boggles at the concept. 
Mon Jun 22 16:26:18 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: dchat :quitely wonders what a Gurba is 
Mon Jun 22 16:26:24 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: hmmm 
Mon Jun 22 16:30:22 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub steals a dchat from Sys. 
Mon Jun 22 16:30:31 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: that should fix your emote. 
Mon Jun 22 16:30:35 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole: Thief Thief ! 
Mon Jun 22 16:30:46 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: only trying to be helpful! 
Mon Jun 22 16:30:51 2009 [dchat] Sys@BlackHole fears it won't work for long 
Mon Jun 22 16:35:18 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: Where is LPC?  You all better get crackin'! 
Mon Jun 22 16:35:48 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: This website requires JavaScript. 
Mon Jun 22 16:35:51 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: FAIL 
Mon Jun 22 16:36:22 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: someone submit lpc 
Mon Jun 22 16:36:37 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: kali, yer a big important man in a big important company 
Mon Jun 22 16:36:41 2009 [dchat] Cratylus@Dead Souls Dev: coerce htem 
Mon Jun 22 16:37:57 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: Raud? Most websites use javascript :) 
Mon Jun 22 16:38:05 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: You know it's 2009 right? 
Mon Jun 22 16:38:07 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: hrm. I'm gonna write this from scratch in scratch. 
Mon Jun 22 16:38:14 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Good websites don't use it to provide CONTENT. 
Mon Jun 22 16:38:23 2009 [dchat] Sinistrad@Dead Souls Dev: I totally read that as "big ignorant man" 
Mon Jun 22 16:38:26 2009 [dchat] Sinistrad@Dead Souls Dev: And thought nothing odd about it 
Mon Jun 22 16:38:30 2009 [dchat] Raudhrskal@Dead Souls Dev: Or provide an alternate version that works w/o. 
Mon Jun 22 16:38:35 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: website uses javascript == website fails accessibility requirements. 
Mon Jun 22 16:38:40 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: so you fail, Kal. 
Mon Jun 22 16:39:11 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: accessibility requirements?  on the web?  lol, who's gonna enforce that?  the EU? 
Mon Jun 22 16:39:14 2009 [dchat] Sinistrad@Dead Souls Dev: Forgive me, but since when does Kali care about human beings? 
Mon Jun 22 16:39:27 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: Silly mortals 
Mon Jun 22 16:40:44 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: your gov. 
Mon Jun 22 16:41:59 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: i don't think TIOBE is a government vendor :) 
Mon Jun 22 16:42:01 2009 [dchat] Sinistrad@Dead Souls Dev: 508 does not apply to all websites 
Mon Jun 22 16:42:14 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: obviously it doesn't, Sini. 
Mon Jun 22 16:42:21 2009 [dchat] Sinistrad@Dead Souls Dev: Then why would it apply to this one? 
Mon Jun 22 16:42:37 2009 [dchat] Sinistrad@Dead Souls Dev: Wait, why am I defending Kali? 
Mon Jun 22 16:42:39 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: why wouldn't it? 
Mon Jun 22 16:42:43 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: lol 
Mon Jun 22 16:43:02 2009 [dchat] Sinistrad@Dead Souls Dev: Because there's no enforcement mechanism in place for this particular website. That's why it wouldn't. 
Mon Jun 22 16:43:06 2009 [dchat] Sinistrad@Dead Souls Dev: Now tell me why it would. 
Mon Jun 22 16:44:06 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: because not doing so makes whomever made it look ignorant and anti social for excluding people with dissabilities. 
Mon Jun 22 16:44:24 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: it's written with PHP 
Mon Jun 22 16:44:27 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: so again, why shouldn't it? 
Mon Jun 22 16:44:49 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: it *requires* javascript, whatever server tech you use is completely irrelevant for that :) 
Mon Jun 22 16:44:59 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: they probably hired some dumb kid to code it 
Mon Jun 22 16:45:12 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: PHP pomotes poor web site design 
Mon Jun 22 16:45:16 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: see, there are perfectly good functional reasons to require that, but his site doesn't have one, so what they do is ignorance. 
Mon Jun 22 16:45:25 2009 [dchat] Sinistrad@Dead Souls Dev: Oh, so it's a Blizzard web page? 
Mon Jun 22 16:45:29 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: <noscript>This website requires JavaScript. <a href="spiderpage.html">Site Map</a></noscript> 
Mon Jun 22 16:45:53 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: anyway.. that was my pet peeve for today. 
Mon Jun 22 16:46:49 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: but i have to disagree with your previous assertion that javascript means it's not accessible...  When I worked on MSN we had to be accessible per MS requirements and were able to do so even with client side generated content using javascript. 
Mon Jun 22 16:47:17 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: in fact the streaming radio app was completely client side dynamic html 
Mon Jun 22 16:47:23 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: you won't be compatible with many screenreaders that way. 
Mon Jun 22 16:47:31 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: and accessible to all the screen readers available at that time 
Mon Jun 22 16:47:48 2009 [dchat] Aidil@GurbaHub: all the ones you tested you mean :) 
Mon Jun 22 16:47:52 2009 [dchat] Zaknafein@AoD TempMUD: Obviously you know nothing about AJAX then? 
Mon Jun 22 16:48:04 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: We tested with the most popular 
Mon Jun 22 16:49:00 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: JAWS and WIndow-Eyes and some other 
Mon Jun 22 16:49:03 2009 [dchat] Sinistrad@Dead Souls Dev: I'm a little confused as to what the problem is. Most highly functional websites use Javascript somewhere -- even ones that have to meet accessibility requirements, like Hotmail. Screen readers are smart enough to read your hotmail. 
Mon Jun 22 16:49:20 2009 [dchat] Sinistrad@Dead Souls Dev: M I RITE? 
Mon Jun 22 16:49:22 2009 [dchat] Kalinash@Fire and Ice: as long as you code it right, yeah :) 
Mon Jun 22 16:49:28 2009 [dchat] Zaknafein@AoD TempMUD: exactly 
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